Old Testament Pfft, Jesus is the MAN!

[AnimatedDirt]

Oh boy , i live across the street  from a church, so the bells/preaching through loud speakers--  i have experienced personally.

Loudspeakers...really?  I have never heard any church going around doing the loudspeaker thing.  But it's your experience, so I'll assume you're not making it up.

AD, are you being sarcastic? Personal belief affects everyone, because the problem is: .no one keeps it to themselves!

When people ask me in the park on my lunchbreak for donations to their missionary trip to thailand. It affects me. And annoys me, cuz now i know they are going to try to preach their god dellusion to thailand natives.

Ok...you're affected by people coming up to you at the park.  "No, thank you." is annoying/affecting you to the point of hate?  What effect does someone preaching a few thousand miles from you have on you?  Is it not their right to do that which is lawful?  Or should there be a law against it?

Laws in the U. S are made under rhe personal god belief that homosexuals are "not natural" and dont deserve basic human rights, cuz jeebus says so.

Jeebus never said anything about making civil law against homosexuals. ( In context of a theocracy, is different. )  There should be separation between Church and State...and even the bible is clear on this.  The problem is that "we" don't see that Jeebus came to get rid of the man-made rules man made thinking he could "help the cause" by doing so.  While there is mention of what one should or shouldn't do, there is nothing in God's Law (read: 10 Commandments) that says anything against homosexuals.  Jeebus makes it clear that these are THE most important.  Any other "rules" are secondary and should not be instituted on the world, but should be held as personal.   ( as well as the 10 should be on the heart, not in civil law books. )

Of course this knowledge comes from actual reading an not simply skimming the texts.

So, hmm.. Is Asmo or me affected? I'd say yes.

Sticks and stones...One can only be affected by that which he/she allows affect them.

[Asmodean]

Sticks and stones...One can only be affected by that which he/she allows affect them.

Yes, if someone shoots you and you refuse to let it affet you, them bullets WILL bounce... 

[AnimatedDirt]

Me personally? Let me see... People at my door trying to sell me some god before daylight, an occasional lunatic on the street that stops me not to ask for something good and valid like directions or a cigarette... Or even a tenner, for that matter, but whether or not I have "found jesus", the word "Christian" appearing in my constitution, symbolic as it is since recent changes, people wanting me dead, burned in hell or otherwise inconvenienced for not sharing in their delusions, losing a friend to his own god and another to his parents considering me bad influence for lacking one... It's a long list.

How about a $1.00 sign on your door that reads, "No Solicitors".

If you're ok with someone stopping you on the street for a "tenner" that you might or might not have, the same time is "wasted"...

Christian appears in your constitution?  Move from the country.  It was there before you were.

People want you dead?  Live and thumb your nose at them.  ( again...it seems giving the delusional too much credit. )

Losing a friend...very sad and sorry to hear that.  To me, they weren't really your friend.

So that is how other people's gods affect me. And you know what, if they could provide any form of good, rational and verifiable reason for it being so, I would live with it and shut up. As long as it's about "Ah, but I have this feeling and I know I'm right deep inside my soul and I have a soul by the way and so do you and therefor you have to put up with my shit without any real chance of opting out" though, I object to the practices that take gods out of people's minds and shove them down other people's throats.

I still fail to see how it's being shoved down your throat.

There is a law against bells above a certain decibel count. That said, why should I be the one to move? I do not pollute mailboxes with leaflets (poor rainforest...) and my neighbourhood with noise, not more than my neighbours - less than most in fact, less than those with kids and/or dogs and/or motorcycles, at least. Let the damned church move some ten kilometers from civilization.

If they're operating the bells outside the law, make a formal complaint.  Why should you move?  Because it's driving you crazy apparently.  Isn't this the logical thing to do?

You can go to your post office and stop the junk mail.

You know...it is my experience that people create towns around churches.  What was there first...you or the church?  Is it easier for you to move or the church to move?  If the church moves, how many people does that affect?  If you move, ho many does that affect?

Let them ring their damned bells and yell prayers to their damned Allah there.

Part or a small part of the U.S.'s existence is this very reason.

Sticks and stones...One can only be affected by that which he/she allows affect them.

Yes, if someone shoots you and you refuse to let it affet you, them bullets WILL bounce... 

Now your claim is that Christians are shooting you?

[Ecurb Noselrub]

does it give you peace, does it get you through a crisis, does it resolve existential angst, etc.

...Neither of which speak to the accuracy of your interpretation of it. I'd rather be an angst-ridden train wreck than live my life based on weak suppositions.

But they are not weak to me. I'm continually refining my interpretation and getting rid of things that don't work or that are proven wrong.  What's left after 59 years is a fairly simple core faith. Doesn't really have to work for anyone except me, and I figure I have as good a chance of being right as anyone else.

[Asmodean]

How about a $1.00 sign on your door that reads, "No Solicitors".

Mine cost me nearly ten bucks, for all the good it does.

If you're ok with someone stopping you on the street for a "tenner" that you might or might not have, the same time is "wasted"...

Yes, the same time is wasted, only it's not nearly as irritating when people come to you and honestly ask for something for personal benefit. People who want to sell me a faith, however, are annoying.

Christian appears in your constitution?  Move from the country.  It was there before you were.

OR I can continue being politically active and working towards removing the damned word completely. We have taken the first step. The rest shouldn't be as difficult on account of it being mostly formalities.

People want you dead?  Live and thumb your nose at them.  ( again...it seems giving the delusional too much credit. )

You have no way of measuring the amount of credit I give the delusional, so all you can establish is that some credit is given. It's much less than what a drunk operating a motorized vehicle gets, but it's there.

Losing a friend...very sad and sorry to hear that.  To me, they weren't really your friend.

To me, they were. I am not one to have many friends, and so I appreciate those I do have. Nor do I throw the word "friend" around lightly, so yes, my ended friendships are indeed a sad thing.

So that is how other people's gods affect me. And you know what, if they could provide any form of good, rational and verifiable reason for it being so, I would live with it and shut up. As long as it's about "Ah, but I have this feeling and I know I'm right deep inside my soul and I have a soul by the way and so do you and therefor you have to put up with my shit without any real chance of opting out" though, I object to the practices that take gods out of people's minds and shove them down other people's throats.

If you* (*still impersonal throughout) come and start telling me what some third party wants me to do, you are shoving that third party's needs and wants - or worse, your own - down my throat. If that third party can not be contacted directly so that their needs and wants can be verified and possible conditions for me providing them set, and unless bound by the society's law to accept those needs and wants and do my best to tend to them, why should I even be asked to tolerate listening to suh an arrangement?

If they're operating the bells outside the law, make a formal complaint.  Why should you move?  Because it's driving you crazy apparently.  Isn't this the logical thing to do?

No, they keep it within limits. It's still annoying though.

The logical thing as I see it is lobbying for prohibiting bell ringing during the same hours motorcyclists with loud bikes are prohibited from using them in urban areas.

You can go to your post office and stop the junk mail.

Doesn't stop some ghastly green Nissan Micra from dropping the church somethingorother leaflets into every mailbox.

I have a reservation from junk mail, so every piece of mail I get is addressed to me specifically, except two varieties of local religious crap.

You know...it is my experience that people create towns around churches.  What was there first...you or the church?

The churh was here before me, but I was here before the damned bells got installed.

Is it easier for you to move or the church to move?  If the church moves, how many people does that affect?  If you move, ho many does that affect?

If I move, it affects me, my local inner circles and my employer. If the church moves, it affects the twenty-something people who frequent it negatively and a whole bunch of others positively, with the largest number remaining unaffected in both cases.

Part or a small part of the U.S.'s existence is this very reason.

What?

Now your claim is that Christians are shooting you?

No, I don't live in Alabama. I'm saying that being affected or not comes down to more than ignoring external factors.

[Asmodean]

But they are not weak to me. I'm continually refining my interpretation and getting rid of things that don't work or that are proven wrong.  What's left after 59 years is a fairly simple core faith. Doesn't really have to work for anyone except me, and I figure I have as good a chance of being right as anyone else.

And as long as you remember to hang your unverifiables on a peg by the door when you come for a visit, I have no problem with that.

Actually, it also extends to me not having a problem with you voicing an opinion regarding your own self, but if you voice an opinion that I would be in some way better off if I shared it, then I would ask for some proper reasoning. "I feel it in my heart" is a non-argument to me - always has been.

[AnimatedDirt]

No, I don't live in Alabama. I'm saying that being affected or not comes down to more than ignoring external factors.

Bells in your ears = bullets in your body.  Ok.

You're not "affected" by the non-religious bell or a non-religious motorcycle rider, however, a bell from a church, or a motorcycle ridden by a Christian passes by you, you're "affected".

[Asmodean]

You're not "affected" by the non-religious bell or a non-religious motorcycle rider,

Where did I state or imply that? Provide quotes or leave putting words in my mouth to me.

I dislike motorcyclists with poor sound dampeners driving past my windows when they are not allowed to. When they are, however, whih is much of the morning, afternoon and much of the evening, they are free to ride their bikes all they want. Bell-ringers are under no obligation not to wake me up with their bells every second sunday though, it appears, and as long as they are a religious group, as opposed to a construction company or the like, they are apparently free to do so.

Bells in your ears = bullets in your body.  Ok

I refer to the very first line in this reply and expect an answer.

[AnimatedDirt]

You're not "affected" by the non-religious bell or a non-religious motorcycle rider,

Where did I state or imply that? Provide quotes or leave putting words in my mouth to me.

I dislike motorcyclists with poor sound dampeners driving past my windows when they are not allowed to. When they are, however, whih is much of the morning, afternoon and much of the evening, they are free to ride their bikes all they want. Bell-ringers are under no obligation not to wake me up with their bells every second sunday though, it appears, and as long as they are a religious group, as opposed to a construction company or the like, they are apparently free to do so.

Bells in your ears = bullets in your body.  Ok

I refer to the very first line in this reply and expect an answer.

Not trying to put words in your mouth ( sorry to have done so ) , but trying to figure out the logic of the bells "affecting" you.

I used to live 500 or so ft from an active military runway.  The planes affected my sleep for a time, but after a few weeks, I didn't hear them at all during my sleep.  At times NOW, I can hear the class bells of the school near my home if I listen hard enough.

[Asmodean]

Do they do class bells in the early hours of morning on weekends?

The logic I present is as follows: Your personal beliefs may lead you to actions. Those actions may affect people other than yourself (in a small or a big way - that part is largely irrelevant). If your intention is other than letting your ations affect me, like for instance a truck driver is not driving past your window to be really annoying - he has a job to do, then I don't mind in the slightest. However, if your intention is to get a message across to me (Or just make enough noise to be heard) by direct communication, that message had better hold its water or I am not interested in hearing it.

If a computer store thinks I should consider buying some stuff and send me their catalogue, with my name and address on it, then it's all good and well. I will review and see if it has any benefit for me. However, I'm not ok with some random fool approaching me with recipies for a better life without asking whether or not I even want one. To that, my response is usually a variation of "Get a life, loser!", nor am I ok with a bunch of random fools disturbing my sleep for no other reason than to be heard (Or did I miss the point of church bells and mosque loudspeakers?)

[Stevil]

God only moves on those that move towards him.

Lets get this straight
In order to receive an experience, "proving" that the god exists, the following must happen:
Using AD's logic
1.   The person moves towards the god
2.   The god chooses (at its behest) that the person will be given a compelling experience
3.   The god then delivers a compelling experience to the person.
4.   The person now believes in the god

The obvious problem with this logic is premise 1.
Premise 1 cannot be the starting point. In order for a person to move towards a god the person must first believe in the god, Thus we have the full logical statement.
Stevil's Logic
1.   Person must believe in the god
2.   The person moves towards the god
3.   The god chooses (at its behest) that the person will be given a compelling experience
4.   The god then delivers a compelling experience to the person.
5.   The person now believes in the god

So to arrive at 5, we must have 1. This is a circular reference.

[Stevil]

Would you rather he force himself on you?  It seems clear that knowing "all about this god" through his word (bible) and what he offers everyone, you actively choose against

I would rather a god not hide away, not to evaluate people based on blind faith, not to evaluate people against a lifestyle where they have no guidelines and no feedback with regards to compliance.

It would be like a government creating laws and not telling anyone about what those laws are, and worse, the government then hides away, so no one has knowledge that the government exists.

Everynow and then people simply disappear from society. No one knows where they went or why.

But the hidden government, having assessed the person transgressed the unknown law, sent its silent assassins to kill the person and to hide any evidence of the punishment, and not let anyone know why the person was punished.

What would truly be ridiculous would be for this government then to judge people based on belief. Their only crime being non belief. People that don't believe in this hidden government, they then get killed randomly, in a way that no one knows that non believers are being killed.

Christianity is such a wonderful religion don't you think?

[Sweetdeath]

God only moves on those that move towards him.

Lets get this straight
In order to receive an experience, "proving" that the god exists, the following must happen:
Using AD's logic
1.   The person moves towards the god
2.   The god chooses (at its behest) that the person will be given a compelling experience
3.   The god then delivers a compelling experience to the person.
4.   The person now believes in the god

The obvious problem with this logic is premise 1.
Premise 1 cannot be the starting point. In order for a person to move towards a god the person must first believe in the god, Thus we have the full logical statement.
Stevil's Logic
1.   Person must believe in the god
2.   The person moves towards the god
3.   The god chooses (at its behest) that the person will be given a compelling experience
4.   The god then delivers a compelling experience to the person.
5.   The person now believes in the god

So to arrive at 5, we must have 1. This is a circular reference.

I like this explination of the insanity that is a  religious belief system.

[Stevil]

I like this explination of the insanity that is a  religious belief system.

In reality what happens is this
1.   Person believes in the god
2.   Person interprets an event in their life as being a religious experience.
3.   Person publicly claims that event is the reason why they believe in the god.

The atheist version is thus
1.     Person has events in their life

[Sweetdeath]

I like this explination of the insanity that is a  religious belief system.

In reality what happens is this
1.   Person believes in the god
2.   Person interprets an event in their life as being a religious experience.
3.   Person publicly claims that event is the reason why they believe in the god.

The atheist version is thus
1.     Person has events in their life

Yes. i love being an atheist.