Accepting Belief

[xSilverPhinx]

Does this mean that atheists are less likely to play black jack and roulette?

??? You got me there, but then again I really suck at maths.

I would guess that atheists are actually more likely to play black jack and roulette because devout theists spend a good portion of their time praying, in church, in bible studies, and high on those hallelujah pills. Less free time, you see...


Speaking of gambles and wagers, what about Pascal's idea? You go through the motions, performing ritual after ritual until you finally believe - think it could work?

[Stevil]

Speaking of gambles and wagers, what about Pascal's idea? You go through the motions, performing ritual after ritual until you finally believe - think it could work?

Surely not, I would think you would need to be young (before critical reasoning kicks in) or either have some underlying spirituality already, or be going through some kind of mental trauma.

There seems to be quite a few ex-theists here but I s'pose they were indoctrinated from an early age.

[Jimmy]

I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?

Now, that might work. Or drugs.

Adivan, lots of it, so I can nod my head while drooling....

If someone tries to shove these down your throat, look out:

LOL!!! You know, I'd REFUSE to swallow. I'd stick it under my tongue and later slip it in THEIR drink and then write a post about how funny it was to see them acting "all religious."

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Well, I have long argued that I don't have a choice about believing - you can't force yourself to believe something that you really think is bollocks.  At least I can't.

It may be something like sexual orientation.  You can't choose to believe, and perhaps I can't choose not to.  It's pretty much part of who I am. 

[Amicale]

I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?

Now, that might work. Or drugs.

Adivan, lots of it, so I can nod my head while drooling....

If someone tries to shove these down your throat, look out:

LOL!!! You know, I'd REFUSE to swallow. I'd stick it under my tongue and later slip it in THEIR drink and then write a post about how funny it was to see them acting "all religious."

Religion, really bad food, and someone else's private parts.
Three things that, if forced down your throat against your will, you'll gag on and object to. 

[Stevil]

It may be something like sexual orientation.  You can't choose to believe, and perhaps I can't choose not to.  It's pretty much part of who I am. 

However, people do change with regards to religious belief, people convert between opposing religions and atheists become theists and theists become atheists.
I find it interesting to try and understand how this can happen. For me it would seem impossible. To forgo critical reasoning, to forgo intelligence and simply make a leap of faith arbitrarily towards one religion over another.

With regards to sexual orientation, I don't think people change.
You do hear about married people breaking up and one of them admitting that they are gay, but it seems they were gay all along, only they hid it because society has such a stigma against gays.

[Amicale]

It may be something like sexual orientation.  You can't choose to believe, and perhaps I can't choose not to.  It's pretty much part of who I am. 

However, people do change with regards to religious belief, people convert between opposing religions and atheists become theists and theists become atheists.
I find it interesting to try and understand how this can happen. For me it would seem impossible. To forgo critical reasoning, to forgo intelligence and simply make a leap of faith arbitrarily towards one religion over another.

I think it might have something to do with what we feel we need, and whether or not we think the grass is greener on the other side, so to speak. Someone who grew up atheist might not have a community, might have been treated badly, might be struggling with personal issues in their lives -- and so they might feel an emotional void that they're hoping a religion and particularly a religious community might fill. Someone who grew up Christian/theistic might have 'had it up to here' with that particular culture, might no longer feel a need for it, might have been hurt or damaged by their belief system in some ways... so they might want to escape it, and they could very well see atheism as a relief from all of that. And as to why someone would convert back -- ie, a Christian who becomes an atheist and later goes back to Christianity: they miss what they know. Maybe they miss the community, maybe they miss the emotional feelings they had as a believer, maybe they miss feeling like their life has an absolute objective plan.

When it comes down to it, I think an awful lot of conversions have more to do with where you're at emotionally, what you think you need, and whether you see more benefits or more harm in whatever you currently hold to be true. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

With regards to sexual orientation, I don't think people change.
You do hear about married people breaking up and one of them admitting that they are gay, but it seems they were gay all along, only they hid it because society has such a stigma against gays.

Some people do change. I've got a sister-in-law who was a man junkie all her life, then switched teams. Maybe she was latently bi, but outwardly, it was all men, then a woman.  Maybe it's different for some women as they get older. 

Also, converting from one religion to another is not changing one's "spiritual orientation." They are still believers.  So, some people are going to be people of faith, while some are not.  The "leap of faith" is often as a result of personal experience in that realm.  There may be changes over time, of course, but some people seem to be more inclined to faith than others, even among the highly educated and intelligent.

[Sandra Craft]

But Stevil, your standards of proof are way too high...why couldn't you just accept that if you found your keys after looking for them one day while running really late, but arrive at work just in time to be a miracle? You certainly don't make it any easier for yourself.

I knew a woman once who considered the fact that a light rain stopped just before she had to drive home from work proof that god both existed and loved her. 

If you want to believe you have to do things to encourage your faith! 

1. Go to church every Sunday.
2. Go to a Bible study once a week.
3. Surround yourself with people who believe it is the truth and can encourage you to believe also.
4. Never read anything or listen to anything that would challenge your faith.
5. Read books and listen to audios about why the Bible is true and Christianity is true.
6. Listen to William Lane Craig and other debaters. But, only listen to the debates that they win. If they don't win, it might hurt your faith.
7. If you don't understand something god did in the Bible - ya know, mass murder, shed blood to forgive sins, strange laws - then just say the following Bible verse to yourself over and over and over "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight". Do NOT use your mind! That's just trouble. God's ways are higher than your ways and we cannot possibly understand him.
8. Start praying! Make sure the prayers are ambiguous enough so that you can make-believe that god answered them.

Basically, I could all sum it up in one word- brainwashing.

Let's see, I did all of those except 6. (still don't know who he is) while trying and failing to be religious.  Clearly, that 6. is the game changer.

[Jimmy]

I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?

Now, that might work. Or drugs.

Adivan, lots of it, so I can nod my head while drooling....

If someone tries to shove these down your throat, look out:

LOL!!! You know, I'd REFUSE to swallow. I'd stick it under my tongue and later slip it in THEIR drink and then write a post about how funny it was to see them acting "all religious."

Religion, really bad food, and someone else's private parts.
Three things that, if forced down your throat against your will, you'll gag on and object to. 

I'll just assume ALL three would... Lol.....The first two, been there; the third? I much prefer those non-protruding kind :p

[Amicale]

I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?

Now, that might work. Or drugs.

Adivan, lots of it, so I can nod my head while drooling....

If someone tries to shove these down your throat, look out:

LOL!!! You know, I'd REFUSE to swallow. I'd stick it under my tongue and later slip it in THEIR drink and then write a post about how funny it was to see them acting "all religious."

Religion, really bad food, and someone else's private parts.
Three things that, if forced down your throat against your will, you'll gag on and object to. 

I'll just assume ALL three would... Lol.....The first two, been there; the third? I much prefer those non-protruding kind :p

You and I both, my friend! 

[Jimmy]

 

[Sweetdeath]

I think some people say they're religious because of peer pressure.

[Amicale]

I think some people say they're religious because of peer pressure.

Sure. Or at the very least, they feel as though they can't 'come out' as non-religious because of peer pressure, so they keep their mouth shut and allow religious family members and friends to assume that they're religious, too.

Been there, done that. My grandparents still don't know I'm an atheist. And they never will. I won't do that to them, it's not worth the heartache. They're just not in a place where knowing that or accepting that about me would give them any peace, so I respect that limitation they have, and love them all the same, of course.

[Sweetdeath]

I think some people say they're religious because of peer pressure.

Sure. Or at the very least, they feel as though they can't 'come out' as non-religious because of peer pressure, so they keep their mouth shut and allow religious family members and friends to assume that they're religious, too.

Been there, done that. My grandparents still don't know I'm an atheist. And they never will. I won't do that to them, it's not worth the heartache. They're just not in a place where knowing that or accepting that about me would give them any peace, so I respect that limitation they have, and love them all the same, of course.

Yeah,,i get cutting the old people slack, but it's still sad.