The Book of Job...

[Reprobate]

Preface: My son is a born again christian, an Eagle Scout, and an college athlete (XC runner). There's a video online of him speaking of his religious views. In it he said that he reads the book of Job for inspiration.

While I can see the point about Job's faith getting him through crises. My view may be skewed, but I see that faith as unwarranted. While Job goes on through hardships because he believes in a good and loving god, this god continually shows that Job is wrong. What is actually happening is that this evil, capricious bastard of a god, is constantly screwing with this poor, ignorant slob to test his faith because he can.

I think the book of Job shows that just because one has faith does not mean that faith is well-placed.

[statichaos]

As a metaphor, the Book of Job can be inspirational.  As an insight into the mind and motivations of God, it's horrifying.  God essentially ruins the life of his most faithful follower to win a side bet with the devil.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Interesting that your son is born-again Christian while you are a non-believer. Since you obviously didn't teach him anything about Christianity, was it your wife?  Just askin'.

Job has to be seen in the context of its time, which was long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away (culturally speaking, that is).  They had a view of nature which had God directly involved in everything that happened, including calamities. The book never actually answers the "why" of suffering and catastrophe, but gives the believer hope that, even when the shit hits the fan, there is a brighter (and cleaner) tomorrow.

If you take that general principle over into the modern age, when we know that there are reasons for things happening other than direct divine intervention, the story is still a faith-sustainer. What would be a misplaced faith is if your son took a hyper-literal, fundamentalist view of the book and started believing that everything in it is absolute truth, despite certain scientific problems. But the idea that there is an ultimate meaning and purpose in life, and that despite the presence of suffering a brighter day awaits, is not a destructive sort of faith, nor do I think it is unwarranted and misplaced.

[Reprobate]

Interesting that your son is born-again Christian while you are a non-believer. Since you obviously didn't teach him anything about Christianity, was it your wife?  Just askin'.

Job has to be seen in the context of its time, which was long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away (culturally speaking, that is).  They had a view of nature which had God directly involved in everything that happened, including calamities. The book never actually answers the "why" of suffering and catastrophe, but gives the believer hope that, even when the shit hits the fan, there is a brighter (and cleaner) tomorrow.

If you take that general principle over into the modern age, when we know that there are reasons for things happening other than direct divine intervention, the story is still a faith-sustainer. What would be a misplaced faith is if your son took a hyper-literal, fundamentalist view of the book and started believing that everything in it is absolute truth, despite certain scientific problems. But the idea that there is an ultimate meaning and purpose in life, and that despite the presence of suffering a brighter day awaits, is not a destructive sort of faith, nor do I think it is unwarranted and misplaced.

Interesting take. It is possible to be optimistic without the superstitions though.

My ex-wife is a functional atheist. Her version of christianity is that every now and then she posts "Click like if you believe in Jesus." on her facebook status. Personally I didn't force my beliefs on my kids. I don't agree with religious brainwashing by any group. My son came to his own conclusions, but it was actually when he met his current, off and on girlfriend that his convictions solidified.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Interesting take. It is possible to be optimistic without the superstitions though.

Well, depends on what you count as a superstition. I'm a theist, so my prejudice is declared. My personal take is that you don't need to accept a stone age tribe's interpretation of God, and that you can pretty much do away with the Old Testament as far as a guide to how we should live and believe. However, I still find value and a basis for faith in the Jesus account, so I suppose that you have to determine if you think that's all superstition. If you do come down on the side of it being superstition, then I suppose there's not much reason to be optimistic.  You get old, suffer, die, and that's it. Better enjoy it before you hit 60 or 70.  From what I've seen, nothing really good happens after 70 for most people.  But maybe I'm just being morose since I hit 60 in about 6 months, and no matter how much I exercise and watch my diet, something new seems to hurt every day.  I still get along pretty good, but the finish line is looming much closer.

[Ali]

I have a hard time believing that you have a college aged son.  You look my age!  Are we really that old?

Anyway, the story of Job is horrifying to me.  But I do like the Brick Testament version.

http://www.thebricktestament.com/job/meet_job/jb01_01.html

Best picture:   http://www.thebricktestament.com/job/god_tortures_job/jb02_07.html

[Reprobate]

I have a hard time believing that you have a college aged son.  You look my age!  Are we really that old?

Anyway, the story of Job is horrifying to me.  But I do like the Brick Testament version.

http://www.thebricktestament.com/job/meet_job/jb01_01.html

Best picture:   http://www.thebricktestament.com/job/god_tortures_job/jb02_07.html

Thanks, I don't think you are quite as old as I am. Well, my college aged son is only a freshman, but on the other he has an older sister.

[Reprobate]

I have a hard time believing that you have a college aged son.  You look my age!  Are we really that old?

Anyway, the story of Job is horrifying to me.  But I do like the Brick Testament version.

http://www.thebricktestament.com/job/meet_job/jb01_01.html

Best picture:   http://www.thebricktestament.com/job/god_tortures_job/jb02_07.html

Thanks, I don't think you are quite as old as I am. Well, my college aged son is only a freshman, but on the other he has an older sister.

To be straight-forward about it, I'm 43.

Well, depends on what you count as a superstition. I'm a theist, so my prejudice is declared.

Most religions or anything "miraculous" which is accepted without evidence. That nothing really good happens after the age of 70 seems a pretty grim pronouncement, but still faith isn't necessarily based on reality.

I admit that the idea of heaven and eternal bliss is attractive, but wanting it to be true, isn't going to make it so.




EDIT: Sorted out quotes and attributions - Tank

[Ali]

I have a hard time believing that you have a college aged son.  You look my age!  Are we really that old?

Anyway, the story of Job is horrifying to me.  But I do like the Brick Testament version.

http://www.thebricktestament.com/job/meet_job/jb01_01.html

Best picture:   http://www.thebricktestament.com/job/god_tortures_job/jb02_07.html

Thanks, I don't think you are quite as old as I am. Well, my college aged son is only a freshman, but on the other he has an older sister. To be straight-forward about it, I'm 43.

Oh, okay.  Haha, must be clean living or something, because I had it in my head that you were right around my age.  I'm 31.  Hence, I was trying to do the math in my head, like 31-19=.......That can't be right.

[Reprobate]

Okay, 43 1/2  ! Clean living? Yeah, maybe. More likely, dumb luck.

[Gawen]

Book of Job...*smirkin*

Look at it from Satan's pov.

Satan believes in God - Satan must believe in Jesus, as God - Satan has the potential for salvation. Satan must believe in all the doctrines within the Bible because he works against those doctrines. Satan and God, while perhaps not drinking buddies put their differences away long enough to bet on and generally f*ck Job. At least twice Satan does God's will. Jesus says for those that love God (him) to do His will.

I must be tired. Don't know how I came up with all that crap...*chucklin*

Faith is almost, if not always, never well placed, at least in my world view.

[Sweetdeath]

To me, the book of Job is like tellng a batrered woman to stay with her abusive boyfriend because "he won't do it again" and "he loves me."

[Ivan Tudor C McHock]

I admit that the idea of heaven and eternal bliss is attractive............

The idea of forever sitting on the knee of the worst psychopath in the history of the universe is attractive?!

Remember, while you are sitting on god's knee, floating on the clouds in eternal bliss, the very same god is poking skewers into the eyeballs of everyone you ever loved whose only crime was to not believe in him. And he never stops torturing them. In 800 centillion millennia from now, god is still playing his little torture game. He's a real class act.

Now I know you don't believe in this garbage, but to say that the idea of heaven is attractive, is ignoring a pretty f*cking enormous elephant in the room.

[Sweetdeath]

I admit that the idea of heaven and eternal bliss is attractive............

The idea of forever sitting on the knee of the worst psychopath in the history of the universe is attractive?!

Remember, while you are sitting on god's knee, floating on the clouds in eternal bliss, the very same god is poking skewers into the eyeballs of everyone you ever loved whose only crime was to not believe in him. And he never stops torturing them. In 800 centillion millennia from now, god is still playing his little torture game. He's a real class act.

Now I know you don't believe in this garbage, but to say that the idea of heaven is attractive, is ignoring a pretty f*cking enormous elephant in the room.

Hah, I like you.  <3

[Thunder Road]

slightly on topic.... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnJNT_xzDMA


It's the Book of Job...in 70s funk!