Atheist, Humanist, whatever you'd like to call me . . .

[Dobermonster]

I've been in the 'What God?' camp for awhile, but due to my strict Pentecostal upbringing, this stage of my life has largely been one of resignation and depression over my absence of belief. In other words, for a long time I wished I could return to the comfort of Christianity . . .  a feat made impossible by reason. The fear of death became (and still is, from time to time) a recurring discomfort, even cause of panic and anxiety. I have no wish for my existence to cease, with no reassurance of everlasting peace and joy once the nasty process of dying was complete. More recently, I began seeking out the work of Christopher Hitchens (via Stephen Fry), and of course Richard Dawkins. The fear of looking too deeply into the implications of atheism is no longer a factor. More than revealing trains of thought that may never have occurred to me naturally, what became obvious was that the desire for the Christian God was nonsense; the implications of what it would mean for the desire to be fulfilled were far more horrifying than the revealed truth as proposed by scientific theory.

In a nutshell, that is the evolution of my thought. And in order to continue exploring the world from a humanistic point of view, and to further develop opinions about it, here I am. This is the first atheism forum I've joined, and I hope to find the experience an interesting, enlightening, and amusing one.

(And if that was entirely too wordy, I do apologize and willingly submit to a smack upside the head)

-Kate

[Dobermonster]

In order to avoid trying to come up with 10 posts about anything just to get access to the other sections, I hope it's ok if I can ask for advice in this same thread, and then perhaps a mod can divide the thread later on (if that's no trouble).

Part of why I joined is to seek advice on the issue of maintaining good relationships with devout Christian family and friends. Due to unfortunate life circumstances, I am moving back in with my parents for a little while for the first time since I was 19 (I am 24). I have had much conflict with them over the years because of the choices I have made and who I am. Think of a controversial topic for any conservative evangelical, and it has probably been hashed over between us: My "lack of faith", bisexuality, liberal opinions, belief in scientific explanations for the creation of the universe and development of life, etc. I do try to be respectful of their traditions in the same way I would be respectful of tribal customs - with politeness, quiet observation, and non-commital commentary (i.e. Oh, isn't that interesting). If I could peacefully co-exist with them using this method, I would. The level of devotion to their belief system is so great that reason is useless and discussion of anything contradictory to their belief is potentially inflammatory.

For example, the other day I was discussing a documentary I watched on the evolution of language (Planet Word, highly recommended) with my mother. Not only did I feel compelled to skip over the literal evolution of language, but when I talked about the development of many languages as being like a tree with Proto-Indo-European as a trunk, she immediately pointed to that as evidence of the Babel myth - you know, the one where God curses everyone with a different language for being too damn progressive. I love talking about language, science, anything that sparks my interest and delight in the natural world, and it's aggravating to have to switch my internal religious censor on 'high' to avoid conflict and ultimately make the conversation that much more dull. What is the approach? How can you foster a good relationship with someone of this mindset?

[Recusant]

Hello and welcome to HAF, Kate. I agree that if the universe was as described in the Bible (or indeed, the Quran), horror would be a reasonable response.  In my opinion, your intro post was clear and concise; not too wordy at all, but maybe I just have a high tolerance. 

I'm not going to get into your second post too much, since it's likely that (as you say) it will be split off to a more serious section. My way of handling this sort of situation may be considered cowardly, but generally I simply avoid getting into problematic topics with the more staunchly religious members of my family. My excuse is that there were some heated (and completely unproductive) confrontations in the past, and I consider it pointless to cover the same ground. It would only revive bad feelings, and I don't think any of them are going to change their minds.

Notes for new members from Tank:

The Rules.

Users who comply with forum rules will graduate to full membership after 10 posts. Till that time your ability to post is limited to the "Getting to Know You" section of the forum. It is our hope that this small restriction improves the overall atmosphere of HAF.

Some threads you might find interesting.
Where did you get your username from?
10 Things About Yourself
Tell us A Bit About Where You're From
Photography
Non-religious pet peeves
Pets...what do you have?
How to tell your family you are an atheist.*

*You will need 10 posts before you can add a post to this thread, but you can read it at any time.

In addition, you may find the following of interest: "Rules for Conducting a Discussion" by Dr. Mortimer J. Adler.

I hope you enjoy your time reading and posting here!

[Firebird]

Welcome! Your intro was fine; heck, I'm pretty sure mine was longer. And there are a few members of this forum who are in a similar situation as you.

[The Magic Pudding]

Hello

[pytheas]

Part of why I joined is to seek advice on the issue of maintaining good relationships with devout Christian family and friends. Due to unfortunate life circumstances, I am moving back in with my parents for a little while for the first time since I was 19 (I am 24). I have had much conflict with them over the years because of the choices I have made and who I am.... What is the approach? How can you foster a good relationship with someone of this mindset?

Hi!

-option one- the honest, "full monty" route
to the bottom core of existence
a)open your wings and fly away from the nest
b) your life begins when you receive the genetic relay baton from your DYING parent
c) Freedom is the greatest fruit of self-sufficiency= find a mate to move-in with
d) abandon ship


-option two- the thespian , oh how so propre route
acting your way to complacent comfort, deviant, hypocritical and analogous
a)start yoga, resign your intellect
b) lead a secret life
c) in from one ear, out of the other, each communication, remember when you hear anything from them, you will eventually bury them-buld the resources for route 1
d) they would like your behaviour If you were a heroin junkie, accepting everything and liking what you sober find disgusting. Its hard to do this without medication but  it's worth it because they do not deserve being the reason for any self-damage as an adaptive response



You are yourself and have the right to be who you like -never forget- no matter how much compromise you temporarily fall into

[Dobermonster]

Part of why I joined is to seek advice on the issue of maintaining good relationships with devout Christian family and friends. Due to unfortunate life circumstances, I am moving back in with my parents for a little while for the first time since I was 19 (I am 24). I have had much conflict with them over the years because of the choices I have made and who I am.... What is the approach? How can you foster a good relationship with someone of this mindset?

Hi!

-option one- the honest, "full monty" route
to the bottom core of existence
a)open your wings and fly away from the nest
b) your life begins when you receive the genetic relay baton from your DYING parent
c) Freedom is the greatest fruit of self-sufficiency= find a mate to move-in with
d) abandon ship


-option two- the thespian , oh how so propre route
acting your way to complacent comfort, deviant, hypocritical and analogous
a)start yoga, resign your intellect
b) lead a secret life
c) in from one ear, out of the other, each communication, remember when you hear anything from them, you will eventually bury them-buld the resources for route 1
d) they would like your behaviour If you were a heroin junkie, accepting everything and liking what you sober find disgusting. Its hard to do this without medication but  it's worth it because they do not deserve being the reason for any self-damage as an adaptive response



You are yourself and have the right to be who you like -never forget- no matter how much compromise you temporarily fall into

I took option 1 when I was 19. I finished a college program (not where I wanted to end, but a starting point), I married, I bought a house at 20, and then it fell to pieces through divorce and (since the ex-spouse decided not to pay the mortgage), foreclosure, all during which time I struggled with clinical depression and a chronic disease that was only diagnosed a month ago. Option 1 will always be the one I try for first. And though my parents are close-minded, they are "good" people - generous, helpful, and kind. If it wasn't understood that they found my lifestyle "horrifying", I think we would get along fine. While in their house, I have to moderate my choices, which is not a problem - it's their house, I respect that they value qualities that I do not. It's simply that I want to reduce and deflect as much religious tension that comes my way, as well as just be able to have a conversation that does not make me want to facepalm. If it were a few week stay, I would not worry so much. But I'm starting a Psychiatric Nursing program in March that may delay Option 1 until I receive student funding (should I be eligible) that will give me the financial edge needed to live independently.

Thank you all for the welcome.

[Sandra Craft]

Welcome, your intro wasn't too long at all -- in fact, we tend to like long and informative around here. 

As to your problem, that's a tough one esp. since you're between a rock and a hard place financially.  I'd say just avoid any topic that could turn religious (which may restrict you to the weather and "oh look at that hummingbird in the yard!") and resign yourself to bland conversations with your parents, at least while you're under their roof.  Maybe think of it as a form of rent.

[Traveler]

Hello and welcome! You're in a tough spot, and you sound like you're handling a series of issues as best you can. I, too, have moved back in with my mom, and am in the middle of a career crisis. And I'm 54. These days it can happen anytime. I'm lucky that my mom's not religious, so we get along fine. My extended family, however, is extremely religious and live in the bible belt (about 1000 miles away). I don't see them often, but when I do my filters are at their strongest, my shields are on high, and I bite my tongue a lot. It's not necessarily fun, but it can be done when needed. I recommend you try to find friends who have similar interests and beliefs. Sometimes easier said than done of course. Good luck to you!!!

[Tank]

Gosh I missed an intro!

Welcome aboard. The 10 post rule is to deter trolls and as you don't appear to be one feel free to continue this thread here. I'll move it after you reach your 10.

Regards
Chris

[The Magic Pudding]

Welcome aboard. The 10 post rule is to deter trolls and as you don't appear to be one feel free to continue this thread here. I'll move it after you reach your 10.

Dobermonster, if you are having trouble getting to ten I'm up for a few rounds of paper scissors rock, don't expect any pity though.

I would also like to call you a pheasant plucker and sometimes somnambulist, if that's OK.  

[Traveler]

Say, does your username mean you have dobermans? I have a greyhound and some of the little Italian greyhound ankle biters. I love dobies too.

[xSilverPhinx]

Welcome!

IMO it's about choosing your battles, focusing on religious issues with people who are close to you can be draining, and that energy is probably better directed at reaching financial stability or independence once again.

It's not always worthwhile, think it through.

[Dobermonster]

Traveler - Yep, I have a Dobie, and they are one of my favorite breeds (obviously). 

Had the first conflict today . . . it turns they have some sort of 'nanny' program on their router, and I apparently visited an inappropriate site at some point (which I'm not ashamed of, but honestly don't recall). Such a thing is equivalent to using their internet for evil, and they shut down the router. Gritted my teeth, apologized for transgressing on an unspoken rule, and voila. Still may result in parental controls being applied to block certain sites, but as long as I can still communicate freely with friends, write my thoughts, and research things that interest me (non-carnal, of course), I'm ok. The totalitarian state lives in the minds of many, but as long as praise of this particular Dear Leader is not mandatory, I think I can cope. Just wish we could all act like adults and discuss an issue rather than react with immediate censorship and condemnation.

Blech. Vent over.

[En_Route]

Traveler - Yep, I have a Dobie, and they are one of my favorite breeds (obviously).  

Had the first conflict today . . . it turns they have some sort of 'nanny' program on their router, and I apparently visited an inappropriate site at some point (which I'm not ashamed of, but honestly don't recall). Such a thing is equivalent to using their internet for evil, and they shut down the router. Gritted my teeth, apologized for transgressing on an unspoken rule, and voila. Still may result in parental controls being applied to block certain sites, but as long as I can still communicate freely with friends, write my thoughts, and research things that interest me (non-carnal, of course), I'm ok. The totalitarian state lives in the minds of many, but as long as praise of this particular Dear Leader is not mandatory, I think I can cope. Just wish we could all act like adults and discuss an issue rather than react with immediate censorship and condemnation.

Blech. Vent over.

I don't imagine they would be happy theists if they knew you had strayed into this den of iniquity. Unfortunately, the kind of hermetically sealed zealotry that has your parents in its grip is not susceptible to  compromise. Given their basic  premises, it is entirely logical  for them to "save you from youself", and indeed they would see it as their duty and a  profound kindness to do so. There really can be no reasoning with those who have renounced reason. You are luckier than some I  have known in that you have the prospect of extricating yourself from their sphere of influence in the foreseeable future. But I do feel huge sympathy for your situation which is galling and demeaning for you, and  I do hope that you make your escape sooner rather than later. In the meanwhile, it would seem that the oral masochism of  teeth-gritting and tongue-biting comprises the most prudent policy.