What Atheists think about Homosexuality?

[Sandra Craft]

People are often stupid about sex and always have been, whatever their sexuality.  This is one of life's risks, and if your concern is making life risk-free, I don't think that can be done.  I'm not even sure it should be done.......

What is the downside to trying to make a particular lifestyle which is/has shown itself to be extremely dangerous toward its Players  and a nation at large,   risk free or at least moving in that direction ? 

The downside is social fascism, and the "extreme danger" has not been demonstrated.  Yes, AIDS is a terrible thing, so is cancer from smoking, heart attack or stroke from obesity, to say nothing of the fallout from drunk driving.  But none of these things are a danger to the "nation at large" and none are particular to a specific group of people any more than promiscuous sex is specific to homosexuals. 

Im just wondering if there are any plans that could be implemented  to assist in this endeavor ... have you any ideas ?

No I don't because I'm not at all in favor of stepping on other peoples lives unnecessarily.  And you've yet to address the bigotry of punishing many for the acts of a few, acts which are also committed by those in other groups who are somehow given a pass on it.

[Davin]

As for plans of reducing disease, I pretty much believe that one should know of their partner's sexual history and not have sex with just anybody. Basically using common sense.

You don't need the whole history, just the results of the test after the last partner.

[Buddy]

As for plans of reducing disease, I pretty much believe that one should know of their partner's sexual history and not have sex with just anybody. Basically using common sense.

You don't need the whole history, just the results of the test after the last partner.

True, I hadn't thought of that.

[Stevil]

1.  They would be counselled in an effort to exit a lifestyle that has been proven to be very very dangerous to their health and life . 

2.   Im not the one who dresses a homosexual person, nor do I tell them how to dress,  nor are they accountable to me ;   just as you can tell when a person is drunk by their appearance, behaviour, and talk... you can usually tell  if people in public are homosexual .   And no..it is not wrong to discern another since we all do that every single day of our lives .

Does this satisfy your inquiry, or,  do you have some more questions  which id be pleased to answer ?

Yes I have more questions, thanks for the offer.

With regards to 2.
You had previously stated that you don't want people parading their sexuallity in public and that you think it should be kept private.
But your answer to 2 shows that you recognise that in some circumstances it is unavoidable. Struggling Atheist has a gay-dar and can spot a gay person who is simply being themselves.

So what I am asking is, do you think gay people need to become someone else in order to stop Struggling Atheist's gay-dar going off?
So that Struggling Atheist can feel more comfortable in public places, being ignorant of who is gay and who is not.

[Firebird]

How is ANY sex act  which carries with it a very high degree of physical and/or biological harm ... (often leading to fatality).... be considered acceptable to engage in  /  just a viable alternative /   and be vehemently endorsed  to the masses  as socially acceptable ?   

I think you're overstating the level of "danger" when it comes to homosexual sex, and understating the level of "danger" when it comes to heterosexual sex.  

No sex is 100% safe.  Certain behaviors (like promiscuity) increase the risk of catching an STD.  There are promiscuous people of all stripes (hetero, homo, bi, whatever people consider themselves.)

And the bottom line is, I think that adults are capable of weighing the risks of sex without considering them "immoral."

The independent facts for sexual hedonisms STD epidemic  , clearly show that people are ill-informed and/or  are apathetic to the dangers :

One out of 4 women and one out of 5 men have no knowledge about their sexual partners' history.
Two-thirds of 1,000 women age 18 to 60 knew nothing or very little about STDs (other than HIV/AIDS) in 1995.
The highest at-risk groups are adolescents and gays. African American and Hispanic women are also in the high-risk group.
The rate of unwanted pregnancies and incidence of disease is alarming...

Random facts and figures.
* One out of 4 women and one out of 5 men have no knowledge about their sexual partners' history.
* Two-thirds of 1,000 women age 18 to 60 knew nothing or very little about STDs (other than HIV/AIDS) in 1995.
* The highest at-risk groups are adolescents and gays. African American and Hispanic women are also in the high-risk group.
* The rate of unwanted pregnancies and incidence of disease is alarming.
* There are over 15,000,000 new cases of STDs a year.
* Over 70,000 Americans have a viral STD--like genital herpes, HIV/AIDS, or Hepatitis B.
* Individuals under 25 have two-thirds of the STD cases in the U.S.
* 1 out of 4 teens will contract an STD.
* 1,000,000 teenage pregnancies each year.

Rates of curable STD cases in the U.S. are the highest in the developed world.

* There are 150 STD cases per 100,000 in the U.S. versus 3 cases per 100,000 in Sweden.
* Over 70,000 Americans have viral STD--like genital herpes, HIV/AIDS, or hepatitis B.
* Viral STDs such as HPV, herpes, and hepatitis B are lifelong diseases.
* Many people experience no noticeable symptoms initially, but can still pass on the disease.
* Women are up to 5 times more likely to become infected and suffer more serious consequences.

Over 20,000 new cases of HIV/AIDS are diagnosed each year in the U.S.

* 62% of those cases reported before 1996 have died (319,000 Americans).
* Women now represent 30% of new HIV/AIDS cases reported.
* 75% of the cases are from heterosexual sex.
* 3 out of 5 Americans with HIV were infected as teens.
* HIV infection rates are 10 times higher when STDs are not treated properly.

Sexual habits reinforce the need to use condoms.

* Age of sexual maturity is decreasing; age of marriage is increasing.
* More sex, more partners, more risk.
* 46% of teens (14-18) have had intercourse.
* 50% divorce rate means reentering the dating scene to deal with new health challenges.


Sources: American Social Health Association, CDC, Kaiser Foundation

Ok SA, you just proved my point. We keep asking you to back up your claims that homosexuality is somehow "abberrant and dangerous from independent published data reflecting current reality here in the U.S." In response, you posted a bunch of facts up above which do nothing to prove your point. In fact, as Ali pointed out earlier, your own statistics say that 75% of new HIV/AIDS cases in the US are from heterosexual sex. If nothing else, you have proven our point, which is that sex can be dangerous for anybody if you're not careful and responsible about it.
I tried to have a serious back-and-forth with you about this, but all you do is claim that there are "facts" which don't exist to support your flawed argument which has no substance. You're not worthy of my attention anymore.

[Davin]

As for plans of reducing disease, I pretty much believe that one should know of their partner's sexual history and not have sex with just anybody. Basically using common sense.

You don't need the whole history, just the results of the test after the last partner.

True, I hadn't thought of that.

I just found that getting an entire historty is near impossible and the only thing I really care about is if the person has something I don't want. Even with that, I still use and advocate for using protection.

[Sweetdeath]

I'll be lurking for a while, since we seem to have all made very clear- valid points in reguards to SA. At this point, we are just feeding the troll.

[Buddy]

As for plans of reducing disease, I pretty much believe that one should know of their partner's sexual history and not have sex with just anybody. Basically using common sense.

You don't need the whole history, just the results of the test after the last partner.

True, I hadn't thought of that.

I just found that getting an entire historty is near impossible and the only thing I really care about is if the person has something I don't want. Even with that, I still use and advocate for using protection.

I've been told my my mother (who works in an OBGYN) that even if you use protection, it's not guarantied that you won't catch something.

[Davin]

I just found that getting an entire historty is near impossible and the only thing I really care about is if the person has something I don't want. Even with that, I still use and advocate for using protection.

I've been told my my mother (who works in an OBGYN) that even if you use protection, it's not guarantied that you won't catch something.

Yes, and even with a clean test result one can catch something, and even with both a clean test result and using protection, one can catch something. I just mean that I do both and advocate for doing both. There is no 100% protection (other than not having sex), and there are even crazier protection methods that are safer than mine, but this is the amount of effort I'm willing to put in for the amount of reduced probability of catching something.

[Buddy]

I've been told my my mother (who works in an OBGYN) that even if you use protection, it's not guarantied that you won't catch something.

Yes, and even with a clean test result one can catch something, and even with both a clean test result and using protection, one can catch something. I just mean that I do both and advocate for doing both. There is no 100% protection (other than not having sex), and there are even crazier protection methods that are safer than mine, but this is the amount of effort I'm willing to put in for the amount of reduced probability of catching something.
[/quote]

I'd rather be 99% protected then 87% (made up percents off the top of my head)

[xSilverPhinx]

SA...I'm still waiting for you to actually address the people who have indicated where your reasoning is off.  So far we have only established that you at least agree that straight sex can also be dangerous.  So why did you throw out so much hatred towards homosexuals earlier in the post which threw up red flags?  Either you have more "reasons" for why you don't like the idea that gay people exist or it's time to retract your previous beliefs now that you've had more time to think about it.

I'd also like more reasons for why you think PDA is bad.  Why should I care if two people hold hands or kiss each other in public?  Why should I care if those two people happen to be unmarried or gay?  Does their love for each other hurt me? Should we make displaying of affection illegal just to make the more prudish among us feel comfortable?  WHY??

I qualified my stand on why I do not agree with homosexuality, per the OP's request  allowing me the right  to do so .   I also clarified that i do not hate a person or group but I have reasons for finding some lifestyle choices , homosexuality included , abberrant and dangerous from independent published data reflecting current reality here in the U.S.   This information stands on its own, and i dont wish to get into the periphial habits of the homosexual community which you have brought up.  Thank you though for your contribution.

I still don't see the info that you want to use to support your case other than ignorant biases passed down by bigoted people.

[xSilverPhinx]

How is ANY sex act  which carries with it a very high degree of physical and/or biological harm ... (often leading to fatality).... be considered acceptable to engage in  /  just a viable alternative /   and be vehemently endorsed  to the masses  as socially acceptable ?   

I think you're overstating the level of "danger" when it comes to homosexual sex, and understating the level of "danger" when it comes to heterosexual sex. 

No sex is 100% safe.  Certain behaviors (like promiscuity) increase the risk of catching an STD.  There are promiscuous people of all stripes (hetero, homo, bi, whatever people consider themselves.)

And the bottom line is, I think that adults are capable of weighing the risks of sex without considering them "immoral."

The independent facts for sexual hedonisms STD epidemic  , clearly show that people are ill-informed and/or  are apathetic to the dangers :

One out of 4 women and one out of 5 men have no knowledge about their sexual partners' history.
Two-thirds of 1,000 women age 18 to 60 knew nothing or very little about STDs (other than HIV/AIDS) in 1995.
The highest at-risk groups are adolescents and gays. African American and Hispanic women are also in the high-risk group.
The rate of unwanted pregnancies and incidence of disease is alarming...

Random facts and figures.
* One out of 4 women and one out of 5 men have no knowledge about their sexual partners' history.
* Two-thirds of 1,000 women age 18 to 60 knew nothing or very little about STDs (other than HIV/AIDS) in 1995.
* The highest at-risk groups are adolescents and gays. African American and Hispanic women are also in the high-risk group.
* The rate of unwanted pregnancies and incidence of disease is alarming.
* There are over 15,000,000 new cases of STDs a year.
* Over 70,000 Americans have a viral STD--like genital herpes, HIV/AIDS, or Hepatitis B.
* Individuals under 25 have two-thirds of the STD cases in the U.S.
* 1 out of 4 teens will contract an STD.
* 1,000,000 teenage pregnancies each year.

Rates of curable STD cases in the U.S. are the highest in the developed world.

* There are 150 STD cases per 100,000 in the U.S. versus 3 cases per 100,000 in Sweden.
* Over 70,000 Americans have viral STD--like genital herpes, HIV/AIDS, or hepatitis B.
* Viral STDs such as HPV, herpes, and hepatitis B are lifelong diseases.
* Many people experience no noticeable symptoms initially, but can still pass on the disease.
* Women are up to 5 times more likely to become infected and suffer more serious consequences.

Over 20,000 new cases of HIV/AIDS are diagnosed each year in the U.S.

* 62% of those cases reported before 1996 have died (319,000 Americans).
* Women now represent 30% of new HIV/AIDS cases reported.
* 75% of the cases are from heterosexual sex.
* 3 out of 5 Americans with HIV were infected as teens.
* HIV infection rates are 10 times higher when STDs are not treated properly.

Sexual habits reinforce the need to use condoms.

* Age of sexual maturity is decreasing; age of marriage is increasing.
* More sex, more partners, more risk.
* 46% of teens (14-18) have had intercourse.
* 50% divorce rate means reentering the dating scene to deal with new health challenges.


Sources: American Social Health Association, CDC, Kaiser Foundation

Ok SA, you just proved my point. We keep asking you to back up your claims that homosexuality is somehow "abberrant and dangerous from independent published data reflecting current reality here in the U.S." In response, you posted a bunch of facts up above which do nothing to prove your point. In fact, as Ali pointed out earlier, your own statistics say that 75% of new HIV/AIDS cases in the US are from heterosexual sex. If nothing else, you have proven our point, which is that sex can be dangerous for anybody if you're not careful and responsible about it.
I tried to have a serious back-and-forth with you about this, but all you do is claim that there are "facts" which don't exist to support your flawed argument which has no substance. You're not worthy of my attention anymore.

Took the words right out of my mouth

[Whitney]

I've been told my my mother (who works in an OBGYN) that even if you use protection, it's not guarantied that you won't catch something.

Yes, because condoms can break (and you don't necessarily know if it's just a small tear) and there are some types of STDs that aren't prevented by the condom because they affect the surrounding skin too.  Then there is also the other issue of not using the protection methods correctly; such as waiting to put it on till climax.  But, even if no one practiced being careful to try to select a disease free partner the rate of STD transfer (especially of the really dangerous ones) would be minimal if everyone were actually using protection.

Even though complete abstinence is the only truly safe option, most people's sex drive end up overpowering them (it's a very strong natural drive that is difficult to ignore) so it's best that they be prepared with protection instead of pretending like they aren't going to ever have sex.  Ignoring the control of that sex drive is why the pregnancy rates are so high in teens; they aren't prepared for when their instincts get the better of them.

[Stevil]

they aren't prepared for when their instincts get the better of them.

Absolutely, and these campaign for abstinence only education are just abhorrent.
With holding of knowledge is very dangerous, the crazy things some young teenagers think about sex is ignorant and dangerous. I remember a statement from an African official, Minister of health or something like that, he stated that you wouldn't catch AIDS if you took a shower straight after sex.

[Anne D.]

Sidestepping the whole SA back-and-forth and returning to an earlier part of the discussion:

To me, the argument that a person does not choose whom they're sexually attracted to (which I think is true) has never been the strongest argument for equal rights or against bigotry. 

And the "who would choose to be gay given the hatred/persecution" argument is almost offensive. No one ever says, "Who would choose to be [insert racial/ethnic minority] given the racism/xenophobia experienced by that group" or "Who would choose to be a woman given the sexism?"