The Argument from Truth

[Whitney]

Yes, a tactical retreat. Obviously, I'm not going to be able to discuss this topic any further without being banned. Whitney is threatening a ban as is McQ.

This is not uncommon for me. My posts, whatever group I'm in, are like nuclear fuel. They never stop heating up until the moderators have a meltdown.

But just so you know. I was capable of carrying this discussion much further--all the way to the truth, I believe--and would have liked to. But if I'm going to be called a troll, and if I'm going to be threatened with banning, then I got to quit, right?

See you later.

Ed


P.S., I was going to answer some of the replies in my blog, but I realized a post of that length would push all my other posts off the front page. So, I'll just give it a pass. If twenty-three or others wish to continue the discussion. By all means e-mail me.


E.

I'm tired of this mellow dramatic nonsense...I said that If you claimed falsely that you were threatened with banning one more time that I'd make it happen.  So...phase 1 ban...1 week.  It will force you to take the break you keep claiming you are going to take anyway.

[squidfetish]

When was he treatened with a beasting from the ban stick? Can't remember reading about that...  ???

Of course, if he's just being a whiney little <censored> it would explain a lot.

Nothing new here.  Eddy had his ass handed to him on a plate repeatedly on another forum and retreated into his persecution complex to sulk....

[Ecurb Noselrub]

But just so you know. I was capable of carrying this discussion much further--all the way to the truth, I believe--and would have liked to. But if I'm going to be called a troll, and if I'm going to be threatened with banning, then I got to quit, right?

It certainly seems that this is the position you were maneuvering for the entire time. Odd behavior.

[Happy_Is_Good]

So let me say that existence requires meaning. Because if you are the only conscious thing in a black infinite space, and floating next to you is a wooden block. If you disappear, if your consciousness is extinguished, the block of wood loses all meaning. But what that implies is that it becomes everything and nothing at the same time. It no longer is a block of wood. It is as much a pink elephant as it is a cat as it is a cup as it is a block of wood. It's essence is without definition. To say a thing can exist without definition is an absurd statement.

After you are gone, the block of wood can only remain in existence if there is an overarching consciousness to give it definition.

My claim is that was the state of the universe before there was physical life in it.

Yeah?  And this sounds like Plato's "Theory of Forms" which Aristotle demolished 2500 years ago.  Really, this is quite old and quite dis-proven.

Happy 

[Sandra Craft]

They can run it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes, but that's about the extent of it.

True, since barring some personal (and untransferable) experience that one perceives as encountering god, all religious talk and writing boils down to "some guy said".  Or worse, "some guy said that some guy said".  Even assuming that a god does exist and some people have their consciousness sufficiently if briefly altered to perceive it (and a chemical adjustment to consciousness is fine by me -- you won't find a shaman anywhere in the world who wouldn't back that up) I think there'd still be the blind men and the elephant problem.  No ones perception would be the same, and many would be wildly different.  And I have to wonder how many people have had similar experiences without perceiving it as an encounter with any kind of god at all?

But just so you know. I was capable of carrying this discussion much further--all the way to the truth, I believe--and would have liked to. But if I'm going to be called a troll, and if I'm going to be threatened with banning, then I got to quit, right?

It certainly seems that this is the position you were maneuvering for the entire time. Odd behavior.

Not if you read his blog.  That makes his behavior perfectly clear.

[The Magic Pudding]

I don't really understand an argument from truth, shouldn't an argument start with a claim which is defended and perhaps establishes a truth?  It seems odd to have an argument starting from truth, if you already have the truth why bother arguing about it? 

[Pharaoh Cat]

As far as I can tell, Egor fails (at least sometimes) to distinguish between the objective and the subjective realms.  He conflates the two.  "My perception and understanding of the thing is the thing."

Scientists have studied babies with regard to their ability to distinguish between the objective and subjective realms.  For example, when a baby reaches a certain age, if you show the baby a toy, and then hide the toy behind some obstacle, the baby will try to move the obstacle or move itself around the obstacle so as to regain line of sight to the toy.  This tells us the baby realizes the toy continues to exist even when the baby can't see it.  But the baby has to reach a certain age before it will exhibit such behavior.  Prior to this age, the baby presumably doesn't distinguish between the objective and subjective realms.  "I see it, therefore it exists.  I don't see it, therefore it doesn't exist."  That perspective is implied by the propositions Egor puts forward as premises.



 

[Heisenberg]

Man, I keep going a couple of days without coming to the boards and missing another nice, long and worthless thread started by Egor.

Something I find funny, which I hope the mods will take as merely an observation and not a personal attack, is that among Egor's friends, he's probably considered the 'smart one'. That's what arrogance and bullshit philosophy does to weak minds.

[McQ]

Man, I keep going a couple of days without coming to the boards and missing another nice, long and worthless thread started by Egor.

Something I find funny, which I hope the mods will take as merely an observation and not a personal attack, is that among Egor's friends, he's probably considered the 'smart one'. That's what arrogance and bullshit philosophy does to weak minds.

No problem with that here. I'm just surprised that anyone believes the bullshit. He's currently slinging lots of it over on his blog, including how HAF "can't hang" with him and how he totally owned us. I was just alerted to it today. It's a hoot. Can't wait for him to come back and obliterate our arguments.


So, waiting for more of the argument from truth...

[Asmodean]

Bleh..! The Asmo was following these threads of Egor's, but then he decided that his time was better spent admiring the hair in a mirror. 

[Sandra Craft]

He's currently slinging lots of it over on his blog, including how HAF "can't hang" with him and how he totally owned us. I was just alerted to it today. It's a hoot.

Whatever makes him happy and keeps him (fingers crossed) off the streets.

[DeterminedJuliet]

Here is what I said. And you know this is not the statement of a troll. But you go right ahead and ban me if that's what you feel you have to do to protect your forum.

Drink!

I know the game. When the moderator starts getting nervous, it's best to just let things cool down. And that's what I'm going to do. Or I'll be banned, won't I?

Drink!

Yes, a tactical retreat. Obviously, I'm not going to be able to discuss this topic any further without being banned. Whitney is threatening a ban as is McQ.

Drink! Drink!

But just so you know. I was capable of carrying this discussion much further--all the way to the truth, I believe--and would have liked to. But if I'm going to be called a troll, and if I'm going to be threatened with banning, then I got to quit, right?

*hiccup* Drink!

[Heisenberg]

Man, I keep going a couple of days without coming to the boards and missing another nice, long and worthless thread started by Egor.

Something I find funny, which I hope the mods will take as merely an observation and not a personal attack, is that among Egor's friends, he's probably considered the 'smart one'. That's what arrogance and bullshit philosophy does to weak minds.

No problem with that here. I'm just surprised that anyone believes the bullshit. He's currently slinging lots of it over on his blog, including how HAF "can't hang" with him and how he totally owned us. I was just alerted to it today. It's a hoot. Can't wait for him to come back and obliterate our arguments.


So, waiting for more of the argument from truth...

Well, I did find his logic befuddling. If that means I 'can't hang' with him, then so be it.

[Whitney]

He's currently slinging lots of it over on his blog, including how HAF "can't hang" with him and how he totally owned us. I was just alerted to it today. It's a hoot. Can't wait for him to come back and obliterate our arguments.

It's very sad that some people have to be that way in order to feel good about themselves.

I guess I can be happy to say that I haven't given Egor enough thought to even know where this grand blog is.

[Asmodean]

I guess I can be happy to say that I haven't given Egor enough thought to even know where this grand blog is.

Came across it while satisfying my obsession with background checks on weird theists, but never bothered to read it.