Speaking In Tongues

[Ecurb Noselrub]

From Whitney:

I speak in tongues on occasion.

Don't take this the wrong way; in fact the reason I ask is because you seem to be a very rational Christian...but I am surprised that's an activity that you do.  Do you think you could explain it in a way (probably best in a new thread) that those of us who don't understand tongues could understand?  Even though I have a lot of past experience in the church it's something that was always very foreign to me; even in the framework of connecting to god from a believer's point of view.  Just curious.

The subjective experience of tongues for me is like something bubbling up from the mid-section - specifically the solar plexus region - and issuing forth in unintelligible sounds. There is an attendant experience of joy or excitement, plus release or relief, and a general sense of what I interpret as the divine presence.  It can happen during times of religious activity (singing, prayer, etc.) or it can happen spontaneously. My experience with it started soon after the initial experience that I previously described - about 40 years ago.  I consider it a personal matter, and when practiced in public worship it usually causes conflict between Christians and brings derision from those outside the church.  It's purpose for me is simply a path to communion with God when words and thoughts can't bridge the gap.   It is somewhat orgasmic or ecstatic, and that is all the more reason to practice it in private.

[DeterminedJuliet]

I find it strange that speaking in tongues doesn't seem to be a uniform phenomena across all branches Christianity. My father is devoutly Catholic, I'm quite sure that he believes speaking in tongues happened in the bible, and I think he'd even be open to experiencing it, but it's not something I've ever heard him talk about.

Similarly, when I was Christian I had religious "experiences" - two, to be exact in which I felt as though I was in the "presence of God" and experience ecstasy and the sort of things that you talk about, but speaking in tongues never manifested, or ever occurred to me until I became non-religious.

Why do you think it's more common in some denominations and virtually non-existent in others?

[Ecurb Noselrub]

I find it strange that speaking in tongues doesn't seem to be a uniform phenomena across all branches Christianity. My father is devoutly Catholic, I'm quite sure that he believes speaking in tongues happened in the bible, and I think he'd even be open to experiencing it, but it's not something I've ever heard him talk about.

Similarly, when I was Christian I had religious "experiences" - two, to be exact in which I felt as though I was in the "presence of God" and experience ecstasy and the sort of things that you talk about, but speaking in tongues never manifested, or ever occurred to me until I became non-religious.

Why do you think it's more common in some denominations and virtually non-existent in others?

It is not a uniform experience, so those who do not experience it are bound to think it somewhat strange. Since people who have similar experiences are drawn together, there is a tendency for those who speak tongues to congregate in particular denominations like Pentecostal churches. Then it becomes a divisive agent.  It's practice should be kept private.

I think some people's emotion and psychological makeup simply make them more prone to have this particular experience.  I don't think it means someone is more spiritual or righteous or whatever.  It's just one of the variety of religious experiences..

[Whitney]

Thank you for your explanation.  I still don't really get it (and probably really can't from a non-believer perspective) but at least I think I understand how people speaking in tongues feel.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Thank you for your explanation.  I still don't really get it (and probably really can't from a non-believer perspective) but at least I think I understand how people speaking in tongues feel.

There will always be things that we don't get.  I can't comprehend what it would be like to be female, black, gay, or an Aggie's fan, but there are obviously many who have those experiences.  Takes all kinds of us to make a world, I guess. One size doesn't fit all, etc.

[Crow]

What branch of Christianity do you associate yourself with EN.

The feeling you describe is exactly the feeling I have been able to bring forth on command (minus the babbling) since I tried ecstasy about 6 years ago (basically immensely pleasurable, more so than an orgasm where skin feels hyper sensitive, breathing is similar to drink an ice cold glass of water on a hot day when dehydrated, and everything appears more beautiful than before). However to me that feeling is totally secular but may not be the same feeling just sound similar.

[Sandra Craft]

The subjective experience of tongues for me is like something bubbling up from the mid-section - specifically the solar plexus region - and issuing forth in unintelligible sounds. There is an attendant experience of joy or excitement, plus release or relief, and a general sense of what I interpret as the divine presence.

That describes how I feel dancing -- without the unintellible sounds, and with the sense of divine presence being pantheistic rather than Xtian.

[fester30]

I spent some time in an Assembly of God.  I remember being brought up to the stage to be "baptized in the Holy Spirit."  This consisted of praising and praying to God out loud and people laying their hands on me praising and praying and crying.  A person can get themselves into quite a frenzy doing this.  I liken the emotional experience to teenage girls fainting in the presence of Elvis several decades ago.  I could feel very strong emotional stirrings, and I thought it was some sort of religious experience.  I was never comfortable with it, however, because it just seemed off.  I never babbled like others (or some actually spoke something in Hebrew and promptly translated).  I had read what the Bible said about speaking in tongues.

First, it's the least of all gifts.  There are superior gifts, like healing.

Second, there are specific rules laid out in 1 Corinthians Chapter 14.  It will not be a language the speaker in tongues normally speaks or understands.  There will be someone in the room who does speak and understand the language who will translate.  It will be a message meant for that person.  It will be a message not for the believers but for the unbelievers.  When you have a congregation full of believers, and someone is speaking in tongues, that's a sign that something isn't quite right. 

It is a mostly forced exercise that comes about due to peer pressure and group atmosphere that brings about real physiological changes in someone.  When I was there, they made it seem as if I wasn't much of a Christian if I couldn't attain the least of all gifts.  That's just the point, though; a gift is not something to be attained but to be received.  According to Paul, God gives these gifts for a reason.  Now it's just something to have a chuckle at.

[xSilverPhinx]

When it would happen spontaneously, what were you doing? You weren't or hadn't been involved in any religious thing (activity, ritual or even thought) at all? Did you feel before the sounds coming out that you were about to speak in tongues or did it happen totally unexpectedly?

[yepimonfire]

being a christian most of my life and being someone who truly beleived in the gifts of the spirit, i prayed constantly to be baptized in the spirit, over and over and over, yet i got nothing. i also really have to wonder what the point of speaking in tongues is? most of the christians i know who speak in tongues speak random gibberish nonsense. the first time tongues appeared in the bible it was certainly NOT nonsense, it was supposedly the ability to speak in and hear in different languages so that everbody from different tongues could hear the gospel. i have yet to meet someone who speaks in tongues that actually can speak a foreign language. most of the people who do speak in tongues told me they received a tongue by praying and asking to be baptized in the spirit and then........here comes the interesting part.......saying whatever words came to mind. so basically they prayed and then decided to make random nonsensical sounds and called it a "tongue". i also have yet to meet two different people who can speak the same tongue or understand someone elses tongue.

[xSilverPhinx]

i also have yet to meet two different people who can speak the same tongue or understand someone elses tongue.

There are people in some Churches that claim to be interpreters of another's tongue speaking. It would be all fine and well if people didn't believe that it was gibberish and so believed in what they're being told it is by a preacher:. It isn't too difficult since if the person speaking actually does have diminished control over what they're saying* then it's too easy to believe that it isn't coming from them, they don't understand their gibberish anyways and no one can falsify what their preachers are telling them, in their minds.

Not like if someone claimed to be able to read your mind, you think of something and ask them to prove it, you'll soon be sure when they're full of sh*t.

*some have described it as if the speech wasn't coming from their minds and neurological studies do seem to confirm that they do in fact have diminished control and not quite the same as it would've been if they were making up a string of meaningless sounds on the spot.

[Jose AR]

Regarding speaking in tongues: what is brought forward with no evidence can be dismissed with no evidence.

Is there any value in tolerating, and trying to understand, the ways of 'moderate' christians? Do we try and understand the 'feelings' of the religious as they undergo their various religious rituals? In some utopian world where religion had no impact on any single aspect of public life, I think such anthropological studies would be useful. But in a world where we are on the a precipice, where we face nuclear destruction or the advance of a new dark age, I don't think such tolerance or even interest is helpful. Yes, maybe we do need to engage in conversation with the moderate, but this discussion should be about how the moderate will take responsibility for the actions of their more extreme co-religionists, not about how interesting there strange ways are.

Questions like how does it feel? or what's it like are a good start but must be followed up with:
Tongue speaker:
Do you believe that you are speaking in an actual language that you do not understand?
If so, do you have any evidence of this such as transcriptions and translations? (codebreakers can prove if it is "alien' or not )
If not, why do you continue?
Why do you need to speak in a foreign language to talk to god?

It is not reasonable or rational to pretend to babble in an unknown "language". Most practices that require orgiastic, hyper-emotional rituals, simply use a mix of narcotics, sensory deprivation, and isolation.

It is time to see this ritual for what it is: a hazing ritual for the new initiate. Too shameful to talk to non members about, it reinforces the us/them feeling of the congregation, and it fulfills the most powerful element of a sustained religious movement: that a central tenet or ritual is non-comprehesible, by design.

My years of pretending to do irrational rituals are over (transubstantion anyone?), and so are my years of pretending to tolerate their "rational" discussion.

Jose AR

[AnimatedDirt]

being a christian most of my life and being someone who truly beleived in the gifts of the spirit, i prayed constantly to be baptized in the spirit, over and over and over, yet i got nothing. i also really have to wonder what the point of speaking in tongues is? most of the christians i know who speak in tongues speak random gibberish nonsense. the first time tongues appeared in the bible it was certainly NOT nonsense, it was supposedly the ability to speak in and hear in different languages so that everbody from different tongues could hear the gospel. i have yet to meet someone who speaks in tongues that actually can speak a foreign language. most of the people who do speak in tongues told me they received a tongue by praying and asking to be baptized in the spirit and then........here comes the interesting part.......saying whatever words came to mind. so basically they prayed and then decided to make random nonsensical sounds and called it a "tongue". i also have yet to meet two different people who can speak the same tongue or understand someone elses tongue.

First, it's the least of all gifts.  There are superior gifts, like healing.

Second, there are specific rules laid out in 1 Corinthians Chapter 14.  It will not be a language the speaker in tongues normally speaks or understands.  There will be someone in the room who does speak and understand the language who will translate.  It will be a message meant for that person.  It will be a message not for the believers but for the unbelievers.  When you have a congregation full of believers, and someone is speaking in tongues, that's a sign that something isn't quite right. 

It is a mostly forced exercise that comes about due to peer pressure and group atmosphere that brings about real physiological changes in someone.  When I was there, they made it seem as if I wasn't much of a Christian if I couldn't attain the least of all gifts.  That's just the point, though; a gift is not something to be attained but to be received.  According to Paul, God gives these gifts for a reason.  Now it's just something to have a chuckle at.

--we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!

Clearly speaking in tongues didn't mean babbling gibberish.  Hearing spoken Japanese, Russian, Arabic, or whatever isn't gibberish as some of the Benny Hinns of the world would have you believe.  They are languages that we can at least identify as a language.

[xSilverPhinx]

Clearly speaking in tongues didn't mean babbling gibberish.  Hearing spoken Japanese, Russian, Arabic, or whatever isn't gibberish as some of the Benny Hinns of the world would have you believe.  They are languages that we can at least identify as a language.

What defines a language is structure, syntax or grammar. So far, speaking in tongues is just another way of stringing a bunch of sounds together, but doesn't have any other factor indicative of an actual language such as Japanese, Russian, Arabic or even made up languages such as Esperanto.

(I actually take intense interest in this topic, and it would be very interesting if there was a meaningful structure, but there isn't.)

*Edited to correct a word.

[MadBomr101]

I've always considered speaking in tongues to be an example of religious hysteria, and hysteria is an irrational and out of control state.  Just my $0.02.

Ever seen this guy speak in tongues?  



Oh, it's a riot!