For theism: "God, what is your religion?"

[Tank]

I think Bruce was quite brave 'fessing up his use of LSD and the timing of its use relative to his first 'revalation as he must of realised it would undermine his position. Can't fault his honesty on this point.

[Too Few Lions]

I can't really judge their experiences, but I think that it is highly possible that all people who have similar experiences are, in fact, having some form of contact with God.  Yes, if I lived in another culture, that would color my experience.  But all I know is what I have experienced, and there is no question for me about the identity of the one I have communed with.  What that means about the validity of other's experiences, I really don't know.  Maybe we are all approaching the same summit from different routes - it just seems that my route is the best/clearest path.  But again, that's just me.

My point was that these people had experiences of gods other than your god, not the same god. I don't think you're towing the party line again if you're claiming that they were experiencing the same deity as you (eg John 14.6, Deuteronomy 5.9). You're also countering pretty much all Christian teaching of the past 1900 years that has claimed that all other deities are 'false gods' and 'devils'. Indeed the one thing that set Christianity apart from all the other religions of the Roman Empire was its extreme intolerance towards all other gods and faiths. The Roman Empire only became Christian because all other gods and religions were outlawed under penalty of death. Why did the Christian authorities do that if all those other faiths also led to god?

Plenty of people throughout history have had 'religious experiences / visions'  of many different gods and saviours. The deity you encounter in such a vision depends on your background and original belief, and you as an American Christian would obviously experience Jesus.

[Norfolk And Chance]

I think Bruce was quite brave 'fessing up his use of LSD and the timing of its use relative to his first 'revalation as he must of realised it would undermine his position. Can't fault his honesty on this point.

Quite correct, although he now has zero credibility.

[Sandra Craft]

I have no explanation for why you or any other theist continues to believe. It is extremely frustrating because the things that you all build your faith on can easily be destroyed by logic and reason.

That's because faith, by definition, has nothing to do with logic and reason.  You're arguing oranges and apples, it's never going to work.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Now I could go on but I think that I have seen enough to reasonably conclude that your Faith is probably based on the use of one of the most notorious hallucinogenic drugs known.

There is a tendency among you to find the easy answer, jump on it, and triumphantly claim victory.  My faith is based on 40 years of experiences.  But, you've made up your mind, so I'm not going to try to change it.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

My point was that these people had experiences of gods other than your god, not the same god. I don't think you're towing the party line again if you're claiming that they were experiencing the same deity as you (eg John 14.6, Deuteronomy 5.9). You're also countering pretty much all Christian teaching of the past 1900 years that has claimed that all other deities are 'false gods' and 'devils'. Indeed the one thing that set Christianity apart from all the other religions of the Roman Empire was its extreme intolerance towards all other gods and faiths. The Roman Empire only became Christian because all other gods and religions were outlawed under penalty of death. Why did the Christian authorities do that if all those other faiths also led to god?

Again, I'm only giving you my take on it.  The Roman Christians were on their way to becoming the Roman Catholic Church, and were consolidating political power.  I don't have that motivation, so perhaps I interpret things differently than you, anyway.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

I think Bruce was quite brave 'fessing up his use of LSD and the timing of its use relative to his first 'revalation as he must of realised it would undermine his position. Can't fault his honesty on this point.

Quite correct, although he now has zero credibility.

As if I ever had any to begin with.  Be honest - whatever my experience, you were going to reject it. 

[Sandra Craft]

I think Bruce was quite brave 'fessing up his use of LSD and the timing of its use relative to his first 'revalation as he must of realised it would undermine his position. Can't fault his honesty on this point.

Quite correct, although he now has zero credibility.

As if I ever had any to begin with.  Be honest - whatever my experience, you were going to reject it. 

Given the medium we're on, none of us has any real credibility since none of us can back up any personal claims we make unless we can manage to physically meet everyone else on this forum and even then we'd have to present verifiable evidence, so we're all sunk.  At least if we're making claims that have a high woo-woo factor. 

For what it's worth, you have credibility with me as far as my believing that what you believe you experienced was real to you, and if it made you a happier person and a better one to be around, then it was a good thing.

[Gawen]

I think Bruce was quite brave 'fessing up his use of LSD and the timing of its use relative to his first 'revalation as he must of realised it would undermine his position. Can't fault his honesty on this point.

Quite correct, although he now has zero credibility.

As if I ever had any to begin with.  Be honest - whatever my experience, you were going to reject it. 

Oh...I do not reject your experience of using hallucinogenics 40 years ago. That is quite believable and also within my experience. I however took various forms of LSD back when it WAS LSD (about half a dozen times or so) and never had a religious experience and only one bad trip.

At any rate, since you had a religious experience right after using hallucinogenics while reading the Bible and during a 'down' time, I'm sure you can understand our reservations that god somehow exists because of said experience. Moreover, I'm sure you will understand that because of the 'epiphany' you would, given the odds, find this God through subsequent experiences by simply looking for it.

I have a friend that, about a year ago, was down on his luck. He got plastered and lo and behold, he found Jesus. It's amazing that God just simply can't come to people...all people everywhere at the same time. Be it ill, disadvantaged, downtrodden...whatever, God seems to find these folk, many times healing their cancers or ingrown toenails or making their situation better.

All except for amputees. God hates amputees. He never grows a limb for an amputee.

[Norfolk And Chance]

All except for amputees. God hates amputees. He never grows a limb for an amputee.

Lizards.

Chop the tail off and it'll grow back. They are the chosen beings and obviously there must therefore be something in the Icke driven Reptillian fantasy land - Reptillians are GOD. Funnily enough they are just as invisible and hard to pin down.

[Norfolk And Chance]

As if I ever had any to begin with.  Be honest - whatever my experience, you were going to reject it. 

And you are always going to reject the atheist argument to everything. Proof of that is in your faith, because if you started agreeing with us your faith would be destroyed.

While your experience undoubtably happened to you - well actually it mentally happened to you, in your head - there's just no reason to assume that god did it.

People think stuff all the time that isn't right, or that is wishful thinking, to downright delusion, is it god? Nope. My main point being how do we know you are different? How do you even know yourself?

[Tank]

Now I could go on but I think that I have seen enough to reasonably conclude that your Faith is probably based on the use of one of the most notorious hallucinogenic drugs known.

There is a tendency among you to find the easy answer, jump on it, and triumphantly claim victory.  My faith is based on 40 years of experiences.  But, you've made up your mind, so I'm not going to try to change it.

Oh, so Goddidit! isn't the 'the easy answer, jump on it, and triumphantly claim victory'? It is isn't it? It's the simplest cop-out answer humanity can find in the face of the unexplained. And without further evidence that your Faith isn't based on the effects of a hallucinogen I will maintain that view. Why? Because it is the simpler view.
Case A) drug trip influenced by social and personal factors.
Case B) existence of God and that God decided to come into your life just after a drug trip influenced by social and personal factors.

The factors in case A are all verifiable, the God factor in case B is not varifiable, thus case A (a perfectly adaquate evidence based explanation) trumps case B. End of story, until other evidence is presented.

[Too Few Lions]

My point was that these people had experiences of gods other than your god, not the same god. I don't think you're towing the party line again if you're claiming that they were experiencing the same deity as you (eg John 14.6, Deuteronomy 5.9). You're also countering pretty much all Christian teaching of the past 1900 years that has claimed that all other deities are 'false gods' and 'devils'. 

Again, I'm only giving you my take on it.  The Roman Christians were on their way to becoming the Roman Catholic Church, and were consolidating political power.  I don't have that motivation, so perhaps I interpret things differently than you, anyway.

It's not just me that you interpret things differently to, you also have a completely different interpretation of things to your god and saviour and orthodox Christian teaching for the last 1900 years!!! (John 14.6, Deuteronomy 5.9).

[Gawen]

It is mind boggling that some people seem to think they have that invisible mystical conduit between themselves and God. It is even more strange that some people have many experiences with God and/or the saints and other believers have few or none. Of course, the ones that get their experiences say they have the right faith or more of it and the others that don't are claimed by the ones that do don't have the right faith or enough of it.

Of course, in order to keep the experience legitimized, the Protestant Christian experience says the Muslim, Mormon, Catholic, etc. experiences are either false or they are all talking to the same god in different ways.

Good post Tank. I meant to grab that as well but got caught up in the "experience" part and forgot all about it. It was the first time I can remember that a theist claimed I was taking the easy way...*chucklin*...when they of course say "Goddidit".

[xSilverPhinx]

All except for amputees. God hates amputees. He never grows a limb for an amputee.

Lizards.

Chop the tail off and it'll grow back. They are the chosen beings and obviously there must therefore be something in the Icke driven Reptillian fantasy land - Reptillians are GOD. Funnily enough they are just as invisible and hard to pin down.

And teeth. Seriously, would there be any need for dentists if we were more like sharks, who have multiple rows of teeth, or like rodents, whose teeth are always growing? God may dislike amputees, but he sure likes dentists...