The Natural/Supernatural Distinction

[Twentythree]

I've heard this type of argument before. It is something to the effect of, since our minds are made of physical stuff and our perceptions are products of physical stuff. Then anything we think, imagine or dream is natural stuff rearranged. This would make it impossible to imagine anything truly "supernatural".

[The Magic Pudding]

   It is inevitable that what we perceive to be supernatural will become evident.

Translation:
The supernatural will become "Clearly revealed to the mind or the senses or judgment"

That's nice, will the wicked be punished?

[xSilverPhinx]

I think there's a real problem with what supernatural would mean in a natural world. Is it something that's not part of the natural?

Do people who believe in the supernatural see their thoughts as being that?  ???

[Asmodean]

That's nice, will the wicked be punished?

With whips and hand cuffs and leather suits. 

[leedan]

Rea

  It is inevitable that what we perceive to be supernatural will become evident. Everything is natural, we just don't understand it yet. Our wonderfull ability to combine logic and reason with imagination created the word "supernatural".

Not 100% sure about the underlined. My reason for scepticism is that humans have imaginations, dreams and in extremis hallucinations. So some of what humans perceive has no basis in reality, except as spurious (mal)functions of our minds.

    It is natural for us to imagine, dream and hallucinate. I have noticed all kinds of variations in the thought process of all humans. No one is immune including myself. Reasons for these (mal)functions have yet to be discovered. For now we classify some as supernatural.

[Tank]

Rea

  It is inevitable that what we perceive to be supernatural will become evident. Everything is natural, we just don't understand it yet. Our wonderfull ability to combine logic and reason with imagination created the word "supernatural".

Not 100% sure about the underlined. My reason for scepticism is that humans have imaginations, dreams and in extremis hallucinations. So some of what humans perceive has no basis in reality, except as spurious (mal)functions of our minds.

    It is natural for us to imagine, dream and hallucinate. I have noticed all kinds of variations in the thought process of all humans. No one is immune including myself. Reasons for these (mal)functions have yet to be discovered. For now we classify some as supernatural.

I don't see/understand why, in the absence of evidence, why any phenomenon could be attributed to a supernatural agent? It makes no sense whatsoever.

[absurdsolidarity]

As humans, we have an instinctively dualistic view of matter and spirit.  Even though we have discovered scientific/natural mechanisms for specific thought processes and emotions, it is difficult for us to conceptualize our minds on the chemical level.  Evolution can provide explanations for why our brains have evolved this way, but it is difficult for us to relate to nonetheless. 

I think this is part of the reason religion exists in the first place.  We're the only species (supposedly) who has evolved to think this way, and we're arrogant enough to assume everything in the universe is subject to the same dualism that we are.  Our concept of the supernatural is our projection of our need to personify nature and thus make it subjective like we are. 

In other words, we've evolved enough as a species to be able to question these things, but we haven't evolved enough to understand everything in the universe yet.  The combination of those conditions frustrates us, so we use our mind to create reasons for those events we can't explain.  Knowing that something is unexplainable to us simply because we haven't yet reached an explanation doesn't fulfill our intellectual desire to be right.  We want the unanswered to be answered in our lifetime, so its comforting if we can assume what is unanswered is controlled by a supernatural force.  Supernatural is therefore anything we give up on explaining.  Explaining things through science takes a long time.

[leedan]

I don't see/understand why, in the absence of evidence, why any phenomenon could be attributed to a supernatural agent? It makes no sense whatsoever.

   Let me clarify, and sorry for being away so long, but for people like you and me the "supernatural" simply does not or should not exist. Its presence in the minds of others, although very disturbing, is proof of its relevance. I can imagine all kinds of reasons for this but still the question remains.
 
   Sometimes I wish I could have had the experience of illusion that some take so serious that it affects their lives. Hearing personal accounts makes me feel as if I'm missing out on something. The confusion becomes escalated when listening to someone near and dear to me. How can a seemingly rational individual with intelligence and perseverance become totally engrossed in ideals of the supernatural?

   Don't get me wrong, I have been a skeptic since childhood and my conviction towards atheism grows stronger with age. I am optimistic that science will prevail once we are able to manipulate matter and energy. Religion and the supernatual will become a fallacy .

[Tank]

I don't see/understand why, in the absence of evidence, why any phenomenon could be attributed to a supernatural agent? It makes no sense whatsoever.

   Let me clarify, and sorry for being away so long, but for people like you and me the "supernatural" simply does not or should not exist. Its presence in the minds of others, although very disturbing, is proof of its relevance. I can imagine all kinds of reasons for this but still the question remains.
 
   Sometimes I wish I could have had the experience of illusion that some take so serious that it affects their lives. Hearing personal accounts makes me feel as if I'm missing out on something. The confusion becomes escalated when listening to someone near and dear to me. How can a seemingly rational individual with intelligence and perseverance become totally engrossed in ideals of the supernatural?

   Don't get me wrong, I have been a skeptic since childhood and my conviction towards atheism grows stronger with age. I am optimistic that science will prevail once we are able to manipulate matter and energy. Religion and the supernatual will become a fallacy .

The bit I have bolded is the bit that resonates with me. I cannot comprehend why some people put so much value in wishful thinking.