Atheism and evolution...

[xSilverPhinx]

So essentially you think life is not very valuable since it's not rare?  Like something you might just grab off a walmart shelf?

I think that life is valuable because it did not need an intelligent designer to come into existence. Whether it's rare or not doesn't really matter.

Though there is a hierarchy - a human life is more "special" than a bacteria.

To me viruses aren't even alive.  

[JoeBobSmith]

 

[JoeBobSmith]

 haha

[xSilverPhinx]

What would be your main argument/evidence against a thiestic God?

Depends on what they mean when they're talking about 'god'. You could think that you disproved one thing but then their 'god' simply morphs into a different thing than your argument is addressing and the belief stays safe. They move the goalposts a lot.

You can't disprove the feelings they associate with 'god'. You can try and make them question whether they know that those really have to do with god in the way that they think it does...might make some think a bit about it.

As for their god with which they fill gaps, those can be disproven through educating them.

You can try and disprove the claims they make about their personal gods with logic, but don't bother stretching it if they don't get it quickly, something's happening in their heads to prevent that and you'll find yourself throwing the same argument at them over and over again only to have them half answer it every time.

Sometimes it can blur into weirdness. They attribute their whole existence to their particular version of god, and you can't prove to them that they don't exist in order to prove that their god is not possible.

Personally I think that making them aware of the cognitive traps (such as biases, and beliefs in the general broadest sense) that lead to false beliefs can go a long way. Many times even smart people don't see how badly they're thinking.  But you have to realize that with most they want to believe and they actively search for god in everything and that truth value doesn't matter. You won't go far with those.

Well, the only arguments i hear on here are people refuting holy books to disprove a God.  Those books are obviously fallable.  Seems a lot a people have made a religion of refuting holy books LOLOL.  Personally, I'd like to see some new ideas rather than the same ol' "bible aint true here is why" spew...

And it doesn't really matter - if you refrute one thing in the bible, that book leaves PLENTY of room for rationalisation and alternative interpretations. It's language is vague, symbolic and poetic enough to allow for that.

And many theists already know that the bible is not to be taken literally. It's not by saying that 'snakes can't talk' that you're going to get their attention.

A lot of what I see on this site is the attitude that living things aren't worth shit and we humans should just do whatever we want to whom/whatever we want. Thankfully our laws are powerful enough that these people's warped thinking isn't put to action. But also a lot of decent and moral folks on here too I believe.

Really? I've scoured quite a few threads and only very rarely have come across anything that left that sort of impression on me.

I happen to know people who are of such low intelligence that I would prefer the bacteria haha

I had a teacher who resembled a protozoa, which are slightly more evolved than bacteria...

[JoeBobSmith]

[Whitney]

A lot of what I see on this site is the attitude that living things aren't worth shit and we humans should just do whatever we want to whom/whatever we want.  

That's funny because the only time I see anyone say that is when a Christian is asking why atheists care about anyone else...quit trolling.

Note:  Warning issued for trolling...total warning count 2.

[xSilverPhinx]

I'll just say this.  Regardless of whether one belives jesus was god or whatever, the world would be a better place if people actually followed Jesus' teachings

I'll agree with that, and I don't see why anyone would necessarily have to be a theist to follow a philosophy, even one attributed to Jesus.

because they aren't very direct.  It's said more in they're mindset and attitude. all IMO of course, not gonna stir up shit with this

Just a closing comment: I don't think so, I think that you're extrapolating an inference there. Be careful with what they tell you at church, there would be plenty of anti-atheist talk where they tell you things like atheists don't care about anything they care about and are immoral because we don't believe in what they believe.

[JoeBobSmith]

A lot of what I see on this site

[Whitney]

A lot of what I see on this site is the attitude that living things aren't worth shit and we humans should just do whatever we want to whom/whatever we want.  

That's funny because the only time I see anyone say that is when a Christian is asking why atheists care about anyone else...quit trolling.

Note:  Warning issued for trolling...total warning count 2.

Is there a way i can earn "merits" to negate these troll warnings?

They automatically expire 90 days after issue....so you just have to not troll and follow the rest of the rules.

[Ulver]

I hope this is in the vein of the thread, but I wish the general public was more educated about evolution (myself included, I have only recently been studying up on specifics and learning quite a bit). Maybe this is far too obvious, as some people cannot have their minds changed from believing evolution is evil, but I think if some had their misconceptions cleared up, it wouldn't be half the debate it is today.

[xSilverPhinx]

I hope this is in the vein of the thread, but I wish the general public was more educated about evolution (myself included, I have only recently been studying up on specifics and learning quite a bit). Maybe this is far too obvious, as some people cannot have their minds changed from believing evolution is evil, but I think if some had their misconceptions cleared up, it wouldn't be half the debate it is today.

It would certainly be easier if for maybe every one Dr. Dawkins trying to clean up the mess of misconceptions and disinformation there weren't like 10 Kent Hovinds. You have to do that, make them realise that they've got the whole thing wrong, otherwise they're just going to compare whatever you say with what they're sure evolutionary theory is and it's more difficult.

[Twentythree]

I don’t think that evolution directly proves an atheistic standpoint. What it does is cause educated theologians to make their concept of god ever more abstract and reclusive. The more abstract and reclusive a god concept becomes the more a casual observer(not someone who is already entrenched in their theistic faith) will see that the religious representations of god/gods are false. In particular interventionist versions of god. This will in turn lead to the slow and steady erosion of religious influence in politics and thus the sciences. In my opinion it is not the goal of rational humanists, or atheists or whomever, to prove or disprove all of the infinite imagined possibilities of any supernatural or hyper natural or imperceptible force in nature. All our goal should be is to strip religious institutions of their power by refuting and negating all their myths, therefore exposing the destructive and oppressive behaviors associated with the traditions imposed by the institutions. Global instability is fueled by the inherent tribalism in differing religious groups. Each tribe fighting not over land and resources but over influence. To think that “spiritual” leaders in all levels in all churches are blind to the power associated with a religious following is plain naive. Has anyone ever waged war over whose version of gravity was more “true”? Has an extremist Cosmologist ever blown himself up because a new paper was published disputing his finding on dark matter? It won’t be long before all religions are looked at as a relic of a more savage past.

[Wilson]

Personally I suspect that life isn't all that rare throughout the universe - that given the right conditions, it will spontaneously arise

So essentially you think life is not very valuable since it's not rare?  Like something you might just grab off a walmart shelf?

JoeBobWillyJim, I don't remember saying that life isn't valuable.

[leedan]

What would be your main argument/evidence against a thiestic God?

   Is it possible to say that theism itself has evolved, with variations developing in different regions of the globe. I would think that such a reality should remain constant and fixed. Maybe our evolving god is busy creating other forms of consciousness and has forgotten his past achievements.