Euthanasia (split from religion going extinct in 9 countries)

[Stevil]

What I want to make clear is that Islam is not only. --> Believe in God.

These things that you have listed all seem in essence very similar to the other religions. Building upon your belief in a god, well then, what does god want from us? Oh, to live a Good life. What does that mean?, Oh, follow these morals as described in this book, Good Oh!

what our purpose is.

yes, Christians keep arguing that there is some kind of objective purpose, although I am yet to hear them say what it is.

Why do women inherit 1/2 of a man?

This is interesting. What does it mean? Can you please elaborate?

When I quote the Qur'an I talk about the Qur'an, not about God, we can only try to understand what God wants from us)
This is the knowledge I am talking about for which you need your intellect.

This is not knowledge, it is speculative belief. How can one know what god wants, when one can only believe that there is a god and not know.

[AreEl]

yes, Christians keep arguing that there is some kind of objective purpose, although I am yet to hear them say what it is.

A quick answer: The purpose of a Christian is to love God and to love his fellow man as he loves himself. That's it. Now you can stop wondering.

And by the way, The God of the Bible isn't the god of the Qur'an. Don't let iSok fool you by his use of the word ''God.'' He means ''Allah.''

Carry on.

[Whitney]

yes, Christians keep arguing that there is some kind of objective purpose, although I am yet to hear them say what it is.

A quick answer: The purpose of a Christian is to love God and to love his fellow man as he loves himself. That's it. Now you can stop wondering.

That's a subjective purpose...Stevil was commenting on objective purpose.

[Stevil]

yes, Christians keep arguing that there is some kind of objective purpose, although I am yet to hear them say what it is.

A quick answer: The purpose of a Christian is to love God and to love his fellow man as he loves himself. That's it. Now you can stop wondering.

And by the way, The God of the Bible isn't the god of the Qur'an. Don't let iSok fool you by his use of the word ''God.'' He means ''Allah.''

Carry on.

They are all gods.
It is arrogant of Christianity to simply claim that god with a capital G means the Christian god. The Christian god has a name, YHWH.

The purpose as you claim seems transient. Since the love only comes from you towords your god then it doesn't improve or add value to the universe. It seems to be only an aspect of a personal relationship that you think you have with your god. The love towards "fellow man" only applies if there is "fellow man". Near the beginning of time, when there was no man, there there was no need for love of fellow man. Hence it seems this purpose is quite circular in nature and doesn't add value into a grander scheme. It doesn't seem that there was a purpose driving god's creation of humans, it certainly wasn't so that the humans can fulfill this purpose god has ordained onto humans.

[iSok]

These things that you have listed all seem in essence very similar to the other religions. Building upon your belief in a god, well then, what does god want from us? Oh, to live a Good life. What does that mean?, Oh, follow these morals as described in this book, Good Oh!

You have a point there Stevil, but there is a difference that you've left out.
Indeed, the steps within Islam are as followed.

1. Believe in God.
2. Follow His guidance. (Qur'an, Hadith and the Sunnah)

Believing in God(s) is very similar to other religions. So there's almost no difference between Islam and other religions. Like I said, almost.
Islam is the only religion which holds the two concept of the Oneness of God and the Oneness of Man. It has a monopoly on this.

By knowledge, I mean point 2. It's true that you say that religion demands from man to be a 'good' person.
But there are a few problems, let me give you an example.
Christ for example said that you should turn the other cheek if you're hit (good moral law). We can ask ourselves this: Was there any Christian nation that actually applied this?
The answer is short: No. Do you think AreEl would turn his other cheek if I'd hit him, even if Christ told him to do this? The answer is short again: No.

Islam recognizes this, instead of just giving moral guidance, Islam also gives laws. Law for family, society, economy, war, politics..etc.
So it does not abandon man, by asking him to do the impossible. It understands that society is complex and provides laws. No other religion gives this.
Islam does tolerate war for example in certain contexts, but it's economy strictly forbids trade in arms.

And this what I mean by saying: Islam is a religion of knowledge.
In the first place you are of course right: A religion is a religion, something based on belief what other people might not have.

But once you belief in God, then you can study His religion for life, you will not be dissapointed if you have a hunger for knowledge.
And by studying this, you can try to understand what God wants from us. I hope it's more clear now.

This is interesting. What does it mean? Can you please elaborate?

My English is unfortunately not well, I think I made a huge grammar mistake.
Women do not 'inherit' men.
What I mean is that a woman inherits just 1/2 of what a man inherits according to the family law of the Sharia (=the path).

If two siblings (male and female) would inherit 1000 dollars. Then the male would get 666,66 and the female 333,33.

Some people would immediately conclude that a woman is seen as 'less' within Islam.
But it takes knowledge to understand why this is the way.

Once finding out what the true reason is, we might conclude that the man should inherit even more than twice as much.

yes, Christians keep arguing that there is some kind of objective purpose, although I am yet to hear them say what it is.

A quick answer: The purpose of a Christian is to love God and to love his fellow man as he loves himself. That's it. Now you can stop wondering.

And by the way, The God of the Bible isn't the god of the Qur'an. Don't let iSok fool you by his use of the word ''God.'' He means ''Allah.''

Carry on.

If Jesus was here, would he appreciate your behaviour?

'Allah' and 'God' are the same. Arab Christians call God, 'Allah'. Allah means in Arabic: 'The One God'. Hindu's call God 'Vishnu', other's call Him 'Baghan'.
In Hebrew, I thought it was 'Elah'.

I happen to use the English word for the Creator, which is 'God'.

[Stevil]

This is interesting. What does it mean? Can you please elaborate?

My English is unfortunately not well, I think I made a huge grammar mistake.
Women do not 'inherit' men.
What I mean is that a woman inherits just 1/2 of what a man inherits according to the family law of the Sharia (=the path).

If two siblings (male and female) would inherit 1000 dollars. Then the male would get 666,66 and the female 333,33.

Some people would immediately conclude that a woman is seen as 'less' within Islam.
But it takes knowledge to understand why this is the way.

Once finding out what the true reason is, we might conclude that the man should inherit even more than twice as much.

I think you already know my stance on this, no point me typing it out.

[Stevil]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10715552
Euthanasia clinic proposed

[fester30]

A quick answer: The purpose of a Christian is to love God and to love his fellow man as he loves himself. That's it. Now you can stop wondering.

And by the way, The God of the Bible isn't the god of the Qur'an. Don't let iSok fool you by his use of the word ''God.'' He means ''Allah.''

Carry on.

If Jesus was here, would he appreciate your behaviour?

'Allah' and 'God' are the same. Arab Christians call God, 'Allah'. Allah means in Arabic: 'The One God'. Hindu's call God 'Vishnu', other's call Him 'Baghan'.
In Hebrew, I thought it was 'Elah'.

I happen to use the English word for the Creator, which is 'God'.

The Hebrew title of God is "Elohim;" in Arabic it's "Allah." These two words for God have a common bond that most people don't understand. Both of these words have their origin in pagan deities of the ancient past.  Webster’s Dictionary gives the definition and etymology of Allah as follows. Allah is the Muslim name for "the God." Allah is derived from two words "al," which means "the" and "ilah," which is related to the feminine Hebrew word for God, "eloah."  Now the Hebrew title or name for God is 'Elohim' and it is the plural form of eloah. It is made plural by adding "im," which is masculine. This corresponds to adding "s" to make a word plural in English. So the commonality between Allah and Elohim is "eloah" and "ilah."  According the Huston Smith’s book The World’s Religions (p. 222), it states: "Allah is formed by joining the definite article al meaning ‘the’ with Ilah (God). Literally, Allah means ‘The God.’ … When the masculine plural ending im is dropped from the Hebrew word for God, Elohim, the two words sound much alike." Eloah (Hebrew feminine) is similar to Ilah (God). Both Elohim and Allah are titles and not names. http://www.plim.org/1Allah.html

So... in one way, it would seem Jews (and by extension Christians) and Muslims worship the same god.  At least Islam and Judaism both claim the god of Abraham.  In another sense, Elohim and Allah are both titles instead of names.  Sorta like walking up to a man named Larry and calling him Dude.  Jews don't speak the name of god, YHWH.  Not sure if Muslims actually have a name for Allah, or if the title has become the name.  Also, both the Hebrew god and the Muslim god were previously worshipped by pagans as one of many gods.

So what does all this mean for Euthanasia?  Does that mean it's okay to kill old people who are terminally ill and want to die?

[iSok]

A quick answer: The purpose of a Christian is to love God and to love his fellow man as he loves himself. That's it. Now you can stop wondering.

And by the way, The God of the Bible isn't the god of the Qur'an. Don't let iSok fool you by his use of the word ''God.'' He means ''Allah.''

Carry on.

If Jesus was here, would he appreciate your behaviour?

'Allah' and 'God' are the same. Arab Christians call God, 'Allah'. Allah means in Arabic: 'The One God'. Hindu's call God 'Vishnu', other's call Him 'Baghan'.
In Hebrew, I thought it was 'Elah'.

I happen to use the English word for the Creator, which is 'God'.

The Hebrew title of God is "Elohim;" in Arabic it's "Allah." These two words for God have a common bond that most people don't understand. Both of these words have their origin in pagan deities of the ancient past.  Webster’s Dictionary gives the definition and etymology of Allah as follows. Allah is the Muslim name for "the God." Allah is derived from two words "al," which means "the" and "ilah," which is related to the feminine Hebrew word for God, "eloah."  Now the Hebrew title or name for God is 'Elohim' and it is the plural form of eloah. It is made plural by adding "im," which is masculine. This corresponds to adding "s" to make a word plural in English. So the commonality between Allah and Elohim is "eloah" and "ilah."  According the Huston Smith’s book The World’s Religions (p. 222), it states: "Allah is formed by joining the definite article al meaning ‘the’ with Ilah (God). Literally, Allah means ‘The God.’ … When the masculine plural ending im is dropped from the Hebrew word for God, Elohim, the two words sound much alike." Eloah (Hebrew feminine) is similar to Ilah (God). Both Elohim and Allah are titles and not names. http://www.plim.org/1Allah.html

So... in one way, it would seem Jews (and by extension Christians) and Muslims worship the same god.  At least Islam and Judaism both claim the god of Abraham.  In another sense, Elohim and Allah are both titles instead of names.  Sorta like walking up to a man named Larry and calling him Dude.  Jews don't speak the name of god, YHWH.  Not sure if Muslims actually have a name for Allah, or if the title has become the name.  Also, both the Hebrew god and the Muslim god were previously worshipped by pagans as one of many gods.

So what does all this mean for Euthanasia?  Does that mean it's okay to kill old people who are terminally ill and want to die?

Man is a a social creature. It does not like loneliness and most of the time follows others.
Very much like cattle you could say, we are like cattle too be more honest.
So naturally we are affected by what other people think, do and say.We copy them and act that way.

Now, what happens if you introduce the concept of Euthanasia?

At first, it won't be a problem, not everyone will use this.
But after time progresses, it won't be a controversial topic anymore.
When this happens, the strict rules will be more smoothed. To make it more easy for other people to make use of this possibility.
This will happen inevitably if you allow it.

After some while, it will be very common. When this happens, it will affect other's.
Elderly will be seen as selfish if they don't end it after living for 80 years. So they will perceive a certain social pressure, a type of norm.
"You end it after 80 years, otherwise you are selfish."
Some will see it as an escape, out of their depression....and so on..

The reason, that religions forbids is because man is lead by emotions and not reason.
And sometimes heavy emotions can have a massive impact.


Why I am against?

1. If we allow it, the laws will be more and more smooth as time passes. Eventually it will be something common.
2. We are very weak and most of the time we are lead by emotions instead of reason.

[Stevil]

2. We are very weak and most of the time we are lead by emotions instead of reason.

Religious beliefs are based on emotions rather than reason. Going by your logic we should outlaw religion.

[iSok]

2. We are very weak and most of the time we are lead by emotions instead of reason.

Religious beliefs are based on emotions rather than reason. Going by your logic we should outlaw religion.

That's true, but everything is based on emotions rather than reason.
Your standpoint too.

If we had a supercomputer and we would enter all the parameters and values that we know.
The supercomputer would caculate the existence of God, probably it would be higher than 50%.
So it would be reasonable to believe.

But many of us, don't believe. We might ask ourselves why?
We kind off reason this way:

1. I follow smart people.
2. Most smart people don't believe in God.
3. Dumb people believe in God.
4. The smart people are always right.
5. God does not exist.

Exactly like cattle.

We should ask, how step 2 came into existence.
Why do 'smart' people not believe in God.

As I explained earlier here, most holy books demand absolute submission.
The message is: "I am God, you are nothing but an ant, I do what I want, so now bow and obey".
For most scientists this message is not really appealing.
They are the top 1% of society, and now some invisible Being demands their submission.
I think that people like Dawkins or Harris are a good example. They talk as if they are the world, and they are right.
They will never put their forehead on the soil of the earth for God. Because the part that makes them who they are (frontal lobe), should never be the lowest part of their body.
That is what God demands (within Islam). There is no place for ego within this gesture.

When people attain knowledge, they also attain ego. It counts for religious people and scientists.
They find themselves better than everyone else because they are 'learned'.
A little voice in their head says: "Look what you have achieved! You did it all by yourself, you don't need anyone! You're independent and better!".
This voice is also in my head, but I'm trying to kill it and hopefully it won't  take over me.

You could read the books of Imam Al-Ghazali, even if you are not religious.
He describes the life of man, just like the flight of birds.

He narrates a story about birds, looking for the Phoenix.
So this group of birds are going on a journey to the Phoenix.
The journey is rather long and on their own, they can't make it, they will never reach the Phoenix.
So they exactly do what birds most of the time do when they are on trans-continental journies.

They fly in a V-formation, to make the flight more durable. The one on the front, has the suffer the most, but the birds
change position regurlary. So everyone has their turn to fly in the front position.

Once they reach the Phoenix, the Phoenix asks them: Who made this long journey possible?
All of the birds scream at once and say: 'I made it possible!!'.  Not one of them said: 'We made it possible".

When a journalist asked Peter Atkins why he was so selfish, he answered: 'What's wrong with being selfish if you are right?'
It tells enough...

Nonetheless, if science truly destroyed the concept of God.
Then there wouldn't be any religious people in science. Polls show that 20% of scientists, still do believe in a personal God.
I find that still amazing. Peer pressure, ego and the need to follow others within your community still result in 20% of religious people.

But 80% of the scientist do not believe in God and it attracts the masses.
Many of them have never examined their statements or why they do not believe.
Simply they think it's alright not too believe is because the majority of the 'smart' people don't believe either.
"So they can't be wrong!". It results in 25% of the population swallowing prozac.

I find it reasonable to believe in God, because of certain signs in nature.  You see that as reason not too believe in God.
We both mark it as reason, but it's actually emotion.

A top argument, what I have is: We do need God.
You might want me to explain.

[Stevil]

If we had a supercomputer and we would enter all the parameters and values that we know.
The supercomputer would caculate the existence of God, probably it would be higher than 50%.
So it would be reasonable to believe.

But many of us, don't believe. We might ask ourselves why?
We kind off reason this way:

1. I follow smart people.
2. Most smart people don't believe in God.
3. Dumb people believe in God.
4. The smart people are always right.
5. God does not exist.

Exactly like cattle.

Is that really why you think people don't believe in god?

How about this:
1. Are there any photo's of God? No
2. Are there any sound recordings of God? No
3. Can God be detected by any physical equipment? No
4. Are there any detectable observations that can only be attributed to God? No
5. Is there a consice definition of God, including anything that can be observed or measured? No
6. Is there a universal agreement with regards to what God looks like? No
7. Is there a universal agreement with regards to how God can be recognised? No
8. Is it possible for an intelligent being to exist before existence itself? No
9. Is it possible for a being to be intelligent before existence? No
10. Is it possible for a being to be made of non material stuff? No
11. Is it possible for a being to be made of nothing? No
12. How do we know of the story of God? Bible, Koran, ...
13. Do these documents contradict with each other? Yes
14. Do these documents contradict themselves? Sometimes
15. Do these documents present imposible ideas? Yes
16. Is there an alternative to the possiblity of God? Yes
17. Is there money/power motive for promoting God? Yes

[fester30]

If we had a supercomputer and we would enter all the parameters and values that we know.
The supercomputer would caculate the existence of God, probably it would be higher than 50%.
So it would be reasonable to believe.

But many of us, don't believe. We might ask ourselves why?
We kind off reason this way:

1. I follow smart people.
2. Most smart people don't believe in God.
3. Dumb people believe in God.
4. The smart people are always right.
5. God does not exist.

Exactly like cattle.

:bananacolor:

[fester30]

Why I am against?

1. If we allow it, the laws will be more and more smooth as time passes. Eventually it will be something common.
2. We are very weak and most of the time we are lead by emotions instead of reason.

So if I'm not mistaken, you are going with the slippery slope concept.

I can't say I am wise enough in my young age to know whether euthanasia will go down that path.  I can say if we're going to go with the idea that it's a woman's body, therefore it's a woman's choice (abortion) than why shouldn't we use the same concept with everybody when it comes to suicide or assisted suicide?  We could have assisted death clinics (that would probably get bombed by some crazy).

[The Magic Pudding]

Now that's just unfair.  God is so powerful he can exist everywhere without being seen, smelled, heard, or measured in any way.  He's cooler than Houdini.  But not cooler than that guy ====>