The Futile Arguments Thread

[BadPoison]

What is energy?  And then when you are able to define it, please tell me how you can quantify it into positive, negative and neutral?

What research did you put in to discover this truth?

Define: Energy

I have no idea what "positive, negative, or neutral energy" could possibly be. Those terms conjure up images of hippies meditating on crystals. But hey, that's just me. Educate me.

[TheJackel]

What is energy?  And then when you are able to define it, please tell me how you can quantify it into positive, negative and neutral?

What research did you put in to discover this truth?

Define: Energy

I have no idea what "positive, negative, or neutral energy" could possibly be. Those terms conjure up images of hippies meditating on crystals. But hey, that's just me. Educate me.

(physics) a thermodynamic quantity equivalent to the capacity of a physical system to do work; the units of energy are joules or ergs; "energy can take a wide variety of forms"

Like a conscious entity such as yourself

[defendor]

So is energy conscious?

Btw do you have a degree in physics?

[Stevil]

Again...having stopped without reading and making any attempt to see the whole picture, your basis for judging the Christian God is based on a few sentences of a book.  In other words, false assertions.

It is actually extremely ironic that a Christian is accusing me of making false assertions.
As far as I can tell, the foundations of Christianity are assertions built on top of assertions. None, with even an incling of proof.

You suggest that the actions of your god are not despicible, the murders, the rape, the entrapment, the preaching of intolerance and that instead these are acts of love. You say this because the bible tells you that God IS LOVE (assertion). You think that God is perfect (assertion), all powerfull (assertion) and all knowing (assertion). You think that God exists (assertion) all because the bible tells you so. You think that the bible is the truth (assertion) because the bible tells you so. You choose to ignore the evil and dispicible acts of your god as described in your bible because your bible tells you that your god is perfect, all powerfull, all knowing, exists and is love. How can you justify those despicible acts, surely god must have had a great reason.
Well, as it turns out, God is indescribibly complex, beyond comprehension, you are simply left in awe of God's LOVE. These assertions are absolute and they must explain those seemingly evil acts. A perfect, all loving God never does anything wrong.

How dare the non Christians assert anything different!

[defendor]

this touches on a few different aspects, but maybe this may help paint a clearer picture of God.

http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-lib ... lls-in-god

[TheJackel]

this touches on a few different aspects, but maybe this may help paint a clearer picture of God.

http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-lib ... lls-in-god

I can sum all that crap into energy as well..

1) the entire concept is comprised of information whether if it's relevant or not.
2) Absolute love is considered completely UNCONDITIONAL!.. Hmmm.. Existence unconditionally loves you!  Or we are all made from the substance of existence and thus we are all 1.. 1+X=1 = LOVE!.. AKA I will always be apart of existence eternally no matter what form I am in, or become!.
3) Love in the human species is conditional love based on positive and negative attractors. Hmm... interesting isn't it

[AnimatedDirt]

I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse or what. But your response was totally predictable. Anything that disturbs your Faith based world view is instantly dismissed.

Totally predictable?  Then by your powers of foreknowledge, why not cut me off at my argument before I get there..."totally predictable"?

You have no evidence that your particular superstition is real nor that it is any way more feasible/worthy than anybody else's superstition. If you can't tell the difference between a theological myth and what happens every day when sales people try to influence you then you will continually be duped when you suspend your sceptisism.

There's plenty of evidence you're not willing to find out for yourself if it is true or not.  You're simply taking everyone's word for it.

All supposed 'evidence' for the existance of a deity are based on speculation and wishful thinking.

Name all the evidence you've studied on your own and the proof that you've found to dismiss it.

In my opinion Christianity is simply a popular form of wishful thinking as are Islam and Hinduism. There is no evidence for the existance of god that would stand up in a court of law, let alone to scientific scrutiny, thus there is no consequential ability for said 'god' to influence human behaviour in any way whatsoever.

It wouldn't stand up in a court of law?  You sound pretty certain.  So in the least, no person in law, then, should/can be a believer?  Seems like some pretty good evidence YOU have to counter a good courtroom debate.  Seems if so, it would've been done already, doesn't it?

There is evil in this world because a minority of people don't give a shit about other people, they are selfish sociopaths and psychopaths.

A minority?  Take a look around you.  What is the world, on the whole, going to?  Are you suggesting a utopia is on the rise?  

You're welcome to your beliefs. But here I am perfectly at liberty to explain why those beliefs are false.

Bottom line here is...when all is said and done, this is all exactly as you sum it up.  "In my opinion..." and thus you are free to choose your path.  You have made your choice.  Total and complete freewill.

[fester30]

I think this entire thread is a bit ridiculous.  I don't personally have any interest or anything to gain by proving the absence of something faith-based.  As far as I'm concerned, deities can go on existing in the imaginations of theists, and if they ever find any physical proof, they can feel free to present it, and I'll be all ears.

[AnimatedDirt]

He's made up, he's pretend, it's a fact. He's also, conveniently for Christians, invisible.

Your "side" of the argument has not made this kind of defense against belief...you stand alone, so you should present your proof.

If I tell you that Santa isn't real, or that fairies aren't real, or that unicorns aren't real, you'd probably accept it as a fact. And it is a fact. I can't prove that Santa or fairies or unicorns do not exist, other than to offer their complete lack of quantifiable, tangible evidence of existence as proof of their non existence! Same for God. Yet people, unless they are stupid, will readily accept the fact that Santa and unicorns do not exist. Not so with God, which is again just another bunch of stories about something that nobody has ever seen - where is the difference? It does not compute.

Santa has not been "around" as long.  There is no book that is millenia old with prophecies that foretell the future (see the Image dream of Nebuchadnezzar that gave a pretty detailed history of the world prior to the reality we find in history) among others.

Lack of evidence is not proof of non existence, say people, and don't they just love that phrase? They're so smug when they say it as if they've just "won". My argument is, why do people feel this to be the case. Who bloody said this in the first place and how did it become an accepted law?

Then simply present the proof otherwise.

I do not accept the statement "lack of evidence is not proof of non existence", because if something does not exist, you can only "prove" it does not exist by pointing out that there is no evidence to suggest it does exist.

How convenient for you.

God does not exist because, basically there is no evidence. This makes it a fact to me, perhaps I've got a small brain. It's a fact, a fact, an effing big fat fact, that this sky fairy is made up, until somebody proves it's real. Then it's not a fact he's not made up. We all know this will never happen.

Was there evidence man could travel at today's speeds in self-propelled objects 2000 years ago?  Could it even be conceived that one could travel to the other side of the world in half a day?  How about the moon...in a few hours?  Didn't the earth seem flat a few thousand years ago?  It seems many things are without evidence at some point, yet this does not mean these things don't/can't exist.

Not really. Can't see how holding faith can be a gamble? If you're referring to my comment "when you throw the 7", it's just an expression for "die"

7's are good.  They are a "Winner!"  

I meant "I feel you may have a shock when you die". But no, being of faith isn't a gamble, you'll only cease to exist when you pop off, you haven't lost anything other than (if you were able to reflect back) a life of following a dream. The shock when you die, would be perhaps a second before lights out when you might think "oh bloody hell I hope the afterlife is real", only to discover that it isn't - not that you'd be aware of it!

Let's hope you don't have the opposite feelings at your bucket kicking.

The only logical explanation for what happens when you die is that you simply end. Like everything else does. Of course we've all been dead before haven't we! Before we were created we didn't exist, we know what non existence is like! It'll be just the same when we stop existing, although I await the pleasant surprise that I was wrong!

I hope that when you and I die, we die peacefully.  Me in my faith...and you in yours.
I believe as you.  When I die, I will cease to exist.  My "soul" and my body...ALL of me will be dead and I will know nothing.  I will be exactly as you have described above.  Just like prior to being born.

...until called.

[AnimatedDirt]

I think this entire thread is a bit ridiculous.  I don't personally have any interest or anything to gain by proving the absence of something faith-based.  As far as I'm concerned, deities can go on existing in the imaginations of theists, and if they ever find any physical proof, they can feel free to present it, and I'll be all ears.

This goes against many of the Atheists here at HAF.  In fact if proof of God existed, some say they would never follow such a "blood thirsty" God...

What, then, would make you "all ears"?  What would proof of God do for you?

[Davin]

I think this entire thread is a bit ridiculous.  I don't personally have any interest or anything to gain by proving the absence of something faith-based.  As far as I'm concerned, deities can go on existing in the imaginations of theists, and if they ever find any physical proof, they can feel free to present it, and I'll be all ears.

This goes against many of the Atheists here at HAF.  In fact if proof of God existed, some say they would never follow such a "blood thirsty" God...

What, then, would make you "all ears"?  What would proof of God do for you?

It's your concept of god, you should be able to provide the evidence for your claim. We make no claims of any kind about a god, so asking us what would make us all ears is not a very good tactic. The kind of evidence I accept is empirical or just brute facts, if your god has any of that, then go ahead and present it and I will accept it.

[Stevil]

I don't personally have any interest or anything to gain by proving the absence of something faith-based.  As far as I'm concerned, deities can go on existing in the imaginations of theists

So I guess you aren't worried that Christians are preventing stem cell research. That Christians are promoting to Aids ravaged countries that use of condoms is evil. Christians are stopping euthanasia becoming a humane approach to ending human suffering. Christians are ensuring Gay people are treated less than human, needing Civil Union rather than weddings. Christians are trying to prevent sex education for hormonal children. Christianity is promoting the subjigation of women in society. They oppose free speach especially when it has atheistic tones (search for The Golden Compass) Christianity is a large group, they are influencing government and being a barrier to progress and tolerance, peace and love.

[Stevil]

I think this entire thread is a bit ridiculous.  I don't personally have any interest or anything to gain by proving the absence of something faith-based.  As far as I'm concerned, deities can go on existing in the imaginations of theists, and if they ever find any physical proof, they can feel free to present it, and I'll be all ears.

This goes against many of the Atheists here at HAF.  In fact if proof of God existed, some say they would never follow such a "blood thirsty" God...

What, then, would make you "all ears"?  What would proof of God do for you?

Yes, I would find it extremely fascinating if there were any evidence that a god could be made of nothing and yet exist as something. Evidence that this god can exist and yet have no spacial requirement. Evidence that this god is love. Evidence that this god kills people out of love for them. Evidence that this god created our universe (although this would be the least interesting for me, although interested in how the universe came to be, I would consider the creation of it by a god to be a very unimportant and burdonsome task).

I would require much more knowledge than simply existence of god for me to want to like let alone worship this being. It really does have to aswer many questions and prove itself worthy to me. But, as most of us know the Christian god is an impossible concept, which will remain in the realm of impossible to prove concepts, and yet the Christians will continue to believe and continue to try and influence state and try to convert non Christians.

[Stevil]

There's plenty of evidence you're not willing to find out for yourself if it is true or not.  You're simply taking everyone's word for it.

Just one peice of conclusive evidence of the existence of the Christian god would be a great start. Please present and provide links. If you have none, then please decist with your lies.

[defendor]

As for proof, I could refer you to scripture