The Futile Arguments Thread

[Stevil]

As for proof, I could refer you to scripture

Only Christians would deem stories in the bible as proof. I want to see something more tangible than simply a set of stories. Something conclusive enough that a non Christain would have no option than to become a Christian.

[Tank]

There's plenty of evidence you're not willing to find out for yourself if it is true or not.  You're simply taking everyone's word for it.

Just one peice of conclusive evidence of the existence of the Christian god would be a great start. Please present and provide links. If you have none, then please decist with your lies.

Beat me to it!

AD. For years I have read theist arguments and none of them go beyond wishful thinking. When I started visiting forums like this in 2006 I was really quite ambivalent towards theism, it was something people did and most of the time it wasn't harmful. To be honest people like you, intelligent and polite, who defend an indefensible theistic position have done nothing but change my view from ambivalent to horrified to anti-theistic. It's not the loony tunes that do it, they can be excused, it's the cold, cool calculating types that have eroded my tolerance and patience.

Not one of the hundreds of theists and all their arguments have done anything but alienate me. All of the arguments used by theists to back up their positions are either 'special peading', circular inductive reasoning, wishful thinking or empty philosophy based on a desire not to die. Institutionalised superstition relies for its success on the emotional manipulation of its particular group of adherents.  As Stevil says, but using a colloquial term 'put up or shut up', it is a simple request. Defend your 'God hypothesis', bring your evidence and let us evaluate it. But if all you can bring is your personal belief and faith, it simply isn't good enough anymore.

Because of the internet ideas can be challenged in ways previously unknown. Bullies can't win anymore. That's been the case in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. Tyrants can't hide anymore and that goes for the old 'Gods' to. People can safely say 'I don't believe'. In the past they would have been shunned, exiled, imprisoned, tortured killed or even killed for eternity!

AD your ideas, beliefs and faith simply don't hold water anymore. Every discovery about who we are illustrates we're just an ape with a big enough brain to be dangerous. We can trace the building of the elements in first, second and third generation stars. We may not know the exact details of how abiogenesis happened all those billions of years ago. However, we know it happened, because we know the Earth was once a sterile ball of molten rock and it is no longer sterile. Darwin discovered and articulated the processes of evolution, which is now the foundation of the biological sciences. There is no need for Eden anymore. It's a defunct piece of mythology created when our ancestors knew no better and had to make up stories to keep the daemons of dreams and the night at bay.

The quicker we are rid of institutionalised superstitions the better, because then, and only then, can humanity stand up and face the reality of the trouble it's in. There is no objective morality, all we can do is the best we can, be guided by the golden rule and take individual responsibility for all we say and do. You are not stupid, I have no comprehension of how you can hold the world view you do. I think it's divisive and corrosive to worship a myth in the way that you do. It distorts your entire reality to live and breath a waking day dream. It horrifies me. Sorry.

[defendor]

This then becomes an issue of believing.  For a person to become a believer in Christ, it takes the revelation and regeneration of the Holy Spirit.  So regardless of evidence, it's about what you choose to believe.  I will never be able to make you believe anything, that's between you and God.  Everyone has a verse that they cite as "their verse" or what was used to incite the Holy Spirit and thus believe.  So to either believe or disbelieve you have to study the doctrinal beliefs itself, that's why I refer you to scripture.  If you want to disprove God and his philosophies, start by disqualifying what he has said as revealed by sacred scripture.

[Davin]

This then becomes an issue of believing.  For a person to become a believer in Christ, it takes the revelation and regeneration of the Holy Spirit.  So regardless of evidence, it's about what you choose to believe.  I will never be able to make you believe anything, that's between you and God.  Everyone has a verse that they cite as "their verse" or what was used to incite the Holy Spirit and thus believe.  So to either believe or disbelieve you have to study the doctrinal beliefs itself, that's why I refer you to scripture.  If you want to disprove God and his philosophies, start by disqualifying what he has said as revealed by sacred scripture.

Done that already, the world was not created in either of the two ways the bible says at the start of Genesis. It took this god one day to make all the billions of galaxies in the universe, but several days to make the tiny old earth? Some almighty god.

[Tank]

This then becomes an issue of believing.  For a person to become a believer in Christ, it takes the revelation and regeneration of the Holy Spirit.  So regardless of evidence, it's about what you choose to believe.  I will never be able to make you believe anything, that's between you and God.  Everyone has a verse that they cite as "their verse" or what was used to incite the Holy Spirit and thus believe.  So to either believe or disbelieve you have to study the doctrinal beliefs itself, that's why I refer you to scripture.  If you want to disprove God and his philosophies, start by disqualifying what he has said as revealed by sacred scripture.

Ah! This would be the talking snakes, parting seas and virgin births would it? Forgive me if I dismiss such bullshit.

[AnimatedDirt]

AD. For years I have read theist arguments and none of them go beyond wishful thinking. When I started visiting forums like this in 2006 I was really quite ambivalent towards theism, it was something people did and most of the time it wasn't harmful. To be honest people like you, intelligent and polite, who defend an indefensible theistic position have done nothing but change my view from ambivalent to horrified to anti-theistic. It's not the loony tunes that do it, they can be excused, it's the cold, cool calculating types that have eroded my tolerance and patience.

Not one of the hundreds of theists and all their arguments have done anything but alienate me. All of the arguments used by theists to back up their positions are either 'special peading', circular inductive reasoning, wishful thinking or empty philosophy based on a desire not to die. Institutionalised superstition relies for its success on the emotional manipulation of its particular group of adherents.  As Stevil says, but using a colloquial term 'put up or shut up', it is a simple request. Defend your 'God hypothesis', bring your evidence and let us evaluate it. But if all you can bring is your personal belief and faith, it simply isn't good enough anymore.

Because of the internet ideas can be challenged in ways previously unknown. Bullies can't win anymore. That's been the case in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. Tyrants can't hide anymore and that goes for the old 'Gods' to. People can safely say 'I don't believe'. In the past they would have been shunned, exiled, imprisoned, tortured killed or even killed for eternity!

AD your ideas, beliefs and faith simply don't hold water anymore. Every discovery about who we are illustrates we're just an ape with a big enough brain to be dangerous. We can trace the building of the elements in first, second and third generation stars. We may not know the exact details of how abiogenesis happened all those billions of years ago. However, we know it happened, because we know the Earth was once a sterile ball of molten rock and it is no longer sterile. Darwin discovered and articulated the processes of evolution, which is now the foundation of the biological sciences. There is no need for Eden anymore. It's a defunct piece of mythology created when our ancestors knew no better and had to make up stories to keep the daemons of dreams and the night at bay.

The quicker we are rid of institutionalised superstitions the better, because then, and only then, can humanity stand up and face the reality of the trouble it's in. There is no objective morality, all we can do is the best we can, be guided by the golden rule and take individual responsibility for all we say and do. You are not stupid, I have no comprehension of how you can hold the world view you do. I think it's divisive and corrosive to worship a myth in the way that you do. It distorts your entire reality to live and breath a waking day dream. It horrifies me. Sorry.

I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse or what. But your response was totally predictable.

Tell me, Tank...since you claim powers of predictability...at least on my part, what is my response?  Total predictability you claim, must be 100% complete.

Tell you what...I'm going to do a little experiment.  Maybe YOU will test your powers of predictability.  I'm going to send Whitney and Will and McQ a PM with my "predictable response" to you on what I hold as one point of evidence for God.

Give me about 2 hours from now (I'm off to lunch, but when I return) ...I'll send them the PM.  Then post my exact predictable response.  Let's see how well you do at your claim.  Ok?

[Stevil]

Give me about 2 hours from now (I'm off to lunch, but when I return) ...I'll send them the PM.  Then post my exact predictable response.  Let's see how well you do at your claim.  Ok?

Is the Christian god going to play this game to prove to us that it exists and that it knows everything that is going to happen and that it knows how to use a computer and that it has internet connectivity?
It seems to me that you will now try to take up a personal challenge of coming up with an unpredictable response. This is just sooooo predictable

[AnimatedDirt]

Give me about 2 hours from now (I'm off to lunch, but when I return) ...I'll send them the PM.  Then post my exact predictable response.  Let's see how well you do at your claim.  Ok?

Is the Christian god going to play this game to prove to us that it exists and that it knows everything that is going to happen and that it knows how to use a computer and that it has internet connectivity?
It seems to me that you will now try to take up a personal challenge of coming up with an unpredictable response. This is just sooooo predictable

It's my game, not God's.  God doesn't play games.  He may be of good humor...

You can "play" too if you want, Stevil.  What will my response be?

[Stevil]

You can "play" too if you want, Stevil.  What will my response be?

Your response will be driven by your lack of free will.
Your response will be waffle.

[AnimatedDirt]

You can "play" too if you want, Stevil.  What will my response be?

Your response will be driven by your lack of free will.
Your response will be waffle.

As yours?

[Stevil]

You can "play" too if you want, Stevil.  What will my response be?

Your response will be driven by your lack of free will.
Your response will be waffle.

As yours?

Yes, exactly as mine. But different POVs

[Stevil]

God doesn't play games.

God doesn't do anything that requires interaction with humans.

[AnimatedDirt]

God doesn't play games.

God doesn't do anything that requires interaction with humans.

Sure.

[Event_Horizon]

[TheJackel]

Once theists started claiming their GOD to be made of nothing, it was game over :/ Defecting to the other side as a circular argument is all theists have left to argue with. AKA the NOTHING GOD!.. The worshiping of Nihilism.