Hebrew Atheist Billboard Finds a New Home

[Ecurb Noselrub]

What would a Happy Atheist billboard look like?  It would need to be civil and sensitive, and also convey some sense of contentment, I would think.

[Tank]

What would a Happy Atheist billboard look like?  It would need to be civil and sensitive, and also convey some sense of contentment, I would think.

Good question. I'd go for.

Tea, coffee or a beer with your crumpet?

Happy Atheists don't bite 

[Ecurb Noselrub]

What would a Happy Atheist billboard look like?  It would need to be civil and sensitive, and also convey some sense of contentment, I would think.

Good question. I'd go for.

Tea, coffee or a beer with your crumpet?

Happy Atheists don't bite  

What about "It's OK to question your faith. Give us a call when you are ready to talk."  A photo of Rodin's Thinker could be included.

[Tank]

What would a Happy Atheist billboard look like?  It would need to be civil and sensitive, and also convey some sense of contentment, I would think.

Good question. I'd go for.

Tea, coffee or a beer with your crumpet?

Happy Atheists don't bite  

What about "It's OK to question your faith. Give us a call when you are ready to talk."  A photo of Rodin's Thinker could be included.

Too challenging. In general people have to classify somebody as a friend (or at least neutral) before they will react positively to any message they may wish to transmit. The statement "question your faith" is pretty aggressive and adversarial to the majority of believers.

[Asmodean]

I think it is well within my right not to give a damn about how jews - or any ethnic, religious or other groups have been treated in the past.

Of course...unless it was your relatives or people of same thought.

I have some family who died in WW2 and other conflicts. I'm sure some people I would have liked met a less than pleasant demise in many different ways. But I didn't know those people, and I can not really know what I have "lost" in that conflict, because I have no way of knowing what the world today would be like if it never happened.

Are there lessons worth learning in events like wars, ethnic cleansing, crusades and the like? Sure. But am I going to join a pity party for the victims of a conflict decades since resolved..? No. Life goes on, and the past is in the past.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

What would a Happy Atheist billboard look like?  It would need to be civil and sensitive, and also convey some sense of contentment, I would think.

Good question. I'd go for.

Tea, coffee or a beer with your crumpet?

Happy Atheists don't bite  

What about "It's OK to question your faith. Give us a call when you are ready to talk."  A photo of Rodin's Thinker could be included.

Too challenging. In general people have to classify somebody as a friend (or at least neutral) before they will react positively to any message they may wish to transmit. The statement "question your faith" is pretty aggressive and adversarial to the majority of believers.

Man, it's hard to be a nice atheist.  Putting on your hat for awhile, I find it quite challenging. 

[philosoraptor]

Don't mess with the jews. They pull the holocaust card as much as the blacks do with the slave one. 

Except Holocaust survivors, in some cases, are still living in today's society.  And remarkably, having two Jewish best friends neither one of them has ever brought up the Holocaust in a 'woe is me' context.  As it is though, this is another racially insensitive non-sequitor from you.  Quelle Surprise! 

Exactly how many times does someone need to tread the line between stating an opinion and acting like a bigot before a mod steps in to say that this kind of hateful speech is not okay?

Moding is a fine line. It is always a great help if members use the report button. Sweetdeath is thoughtless and immature at times. I think your illustration of your friends is better than a straight warning. Having worked at the Holocaust centre I felt her comments were mostly thoughtless and ignorant.

I know, and I don't envy you for doing it.  My point though is that sweetdeath is pretty consistent with the nasty sentiments about people of other races (I'm still reeling over blacks and Hispanics being described as 'infestations'), sexual orientations, marital status, etc... and then conveniently has nothing to say when anyone brings up how offensive it is.  If she isn't a racist, she does a damn good impression of one.  On top of being a coward who can't own the things she says.  

[Sweetdeath]

I suppose I really should word things better. I don't come on HAF as much at the moment because i'm busy job hunting and such. I don't appreciate being called a coward. I'm not running from anything.
I apologize if you think my words are too harsh .

[Firebird]

I suppose I really should word things better. I don't come on HAF as much at the moment because i'm busy job hunting and such. I don't appreciate being called a coward. I'm not running from anything.
I apologize if you think my words are too harsh .

You really crossed the line with the holocaust/slave comment. I may be atheist, but I'm also one of those jews who lost family in the holocaust, and I've never used that as an excuse for anything. How would you feel if I accused you, as a lesbian, of using the holocaust card? A lot of gay people were murdered then too, along with POW's, Romas, people who were disabled, etc... I am really disturbed by some of the stuff you've posted here and ask that you kindly keep such thoughts to yourself.

[Firebird]

I think it is well within my right not to give a damn about how jews - or any ethnic, religious or other groups have been treated in the past.

Of course...unless it was your relatives or people of same thought.

I have some family who died in WW2 and other conflicts. I'm sure some people I would have liked met a less than pleasant demise in many different ways. But I didn't know those people, and I can not really know what I have "lost" in that conflict, because I have no way of knowing what the world today would be like if it never happened.

Are there lessons worth learning in events like wars, ethnic cleansing, crusades and the like? Sure. But am I going to join a pity party for the victims of a conflict decades since resolved..? No. Life goes on, and the past is in the past.

I think this is a dangerous mentality too, frankly. While it may be unthinkable now, it's not impossible to imagine a society where our fellow atheists are persecuted for our beliefs. How would we recognize the signs without learning about the past and what happened then? It's not about a "pity party". It's honoring them, giving some meaning to their lives, learning about what they endured to ensure it does not happen again. Honoring those people and making sure they're not forgotten is extremely important if we're going to continue to improve and advance as a society.

[Sweetdeath]

Alright, I'm a little puzzled here. Where in my original statement did I saw the holocaust was not a big deal -- or slavery? I feel like you're taking what i said totally out of context.

I never said those events were not said. Every race and gender has been persecuted and enslaved at some point in history unfortunately. It's really sad.

I only have a problem with 20 something year olds using those cards as an excuse to act a certain way.
I actually took a field trip in 9th grade to the Jewish American museum and was quite touched at the end when I met an 80 something year old survivor.

I don't understand what disturbing things you think I am saying, but i am clarifying right now what i am trying to say. thanks. I don't appreciate getting ganged up on for something misunderstood entirely. 

[Asmodean]

I think this is a dangerous mentality too, frankly. While it may be unthinkable now, it's not impossible to imagine a society where our fellow atheists are persecuted for our beliefs.

No, it is not hard to imagine at all.

How would we recognize the signs without learning about the past and what happened then?

By comparing treatment of different groups by said society. If one stands out as being treated differently to all the others, well, there's your first warning sign. That said, I am not saying we can not learn from the past - just that, in my very subjective opinion, far too many people should let it go and look forward, as opposed to dwell on it for fear of repeating it in terms of magnitude, not of polar opposites. It's not "fuck history", it's "prioritize now and tomorrow over yesterday".

It's not about a "pity party"

...And when it is not, I am open to a serious discussion of the subject, kind of like the one we are having now. But if someone decides to compare something to the holocaust, that something has to be at least close to genocide - otherwise, my martyr-warning lights go off like popcorn in the microwave oven.

It's honoring them, giving some meaning to their lives, learning about what they endured to ensure it does not happen again. Honoring those people and making sure they're not forgotten is extremely important if we're going to continue to improve and advance as a society.

I'm sorry if it sounds brutal, but it's not my job to give someone's life - or death - a meaning. My job is giving my own life a meaning, so that perhaps others will find it meaningful as well. That said...

I've talked to holocaust survivors (Well... Drop the last s, really), and listened to the stories of it all with interest, without insulting the person in question even once or being incredibly insensitive towards her experiences. However, when someone born in the seventies - long after WW2 - starts using phrases like "It's like new holocaust" or in other ways using it to describe being wronged in a non-life, freedom and basic human dignity depriving way, especially if the action is aimed at everyone and not a single group within society (For instance, making infant circumision illegal here in Norway - in debates, the holocaust card was played several times, although every single person in the country would be equal under that law, be it the majority, jew, muslim or a resident Swede), then I think that individual is using the events of the past in all the wrong ways and for all the wrong reasons. In fact, were I a holocaust survivor, I'd probably be deeply offended by it, as when used enough in this fashion, the edge of the "real" holocaust card is inevitably dulled.

That was a mother of a sentence up there... Hope it's coherent.

[Guardian85]

It was quite coherent, and in my opinion spot on.

[Tank]

Alright, I'm a little puzzled here. Where in my original statement did I saw the holocaust was not a big deal -- or slavery? I feel like you're taking what i said totally out of context.

I never said those events were not said. Every race and gender has been persecuted and enslaved at some point in history unfortunately. It's really sad.

I only have a problem with 20 something year olds using those cards as an excuse to act a certain way.
I actually took a field trip in 9th grade to the Jewish American museum and was quite touched at the end when I met an 80 something year old survivor.

I don't understand what disturbing things you think I am saying, but i am clarifying right now what i am trying to say. thanks. I don't appreciate getting ganged up on for something misunderstood entirely. 

Sweetdeath

When communicating the obligation of accuracy starts with the person who starts a comment; in this case you. You made some statements that were blatantly racist. It is quite unreasonable of you not to expect these to be commented on. You can't make a blatantly racist statement and then expect no comment. So then you say 'that's no what I meant' and get the hump about people getting pissed off with what you did write. People read what you write, they don't know what you're thinking. You really do need to be more careful what you write in the first place if you are to avoid being misunderstood.

Chris

[Siz]

The lessons that need to be learned from the holocaust have nothing to do with Jews per se. To learn from the horrific events we need to study the actions of the Nazi command.  It was no more atrocious than what is happening in may places today - it was just much more successful.

Seems to me like it's not the Jews themselves that are playing 'the holocaust card' - more that it is used as a political weapon by the militant (and not so militant) left.

Mourn, remember and move on.

Once again, Asmos approach is characteristically unPC but nonetheless to the point.