Strong and Weak Atheism...is it really necessary?

[Whitney]

I've been thinking about if the terms strong and weak in relation to atheism are really that necessary. When we determine whether or not we believe in something such as gnomes we don't say we are agnostic towards them in the light of a complete lack of evidence, we just say they don't exist. I guess it could be possible that at a later date some evidence for gnomes could reveal itself, but we would still think it quite odd for someone to say they are agnostic towards gnomes.

Thinking of it in this way, why does it make sense to divide atheism into strong and weak distinctions? At most the distinctions are representations of how sure a person is in claiming there isn't a god. But, I would think that if a person is willing to claim they don't believe in a god they are probably rather sure of that decision. Basically, the two distinctions are so close to each other it is almost redundant. I've also noticed that very few can actually agree on what the two terms mean...so are they really necessary? I've come to think that maybe they end up confusing people more than anything.

I'm still thinking about it, but for now I just consider myself an atheist and don't worry with trying to tack on additional descriptions. The only time any sort of need for them appears seems to be in debate and then you usually have to describe what you mean by them anyway.

Thoughts?

[HoratioHB]

I always held the belief that a weak atheist/agnostic was the quiet, passive type, whilst the strong one was the agressive, in your face type. And then there was the broad spectrum in between.

[Jassman]

The distinction between strong and weak exists I believe because of the negative stigma surrounding the term "atheism".

-You're an atheist?

-Uh.... yeah... but I'm just a weak atheist! I'm not saying there's definitely no god!

It's that last bit of guilt that people have trouble abandoning. It's like how almost every Christian who deconverts to atheism has a period where they refer to themselves as an agnostic, not ready to accept the term atheist.

[paulisill]

yea i believe the same, people will call themselves weak athiests basically because they dont wanna get the fire and brimstone talk

[Court]

I think it's partially the aversion of evangelizing as well. I don't want to push my beliefs (or non-beliefs) on others, because I HATE it when Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc. do it to me. But I also want to introduce people to why I think the way I do. Despite the horrible stereotyping generalizations, I don't want people that I KNOW are intelligent and rational believing in sky pixies just because everyone else does. Besides, the more we talk about it, the less of a stigma it becomes. But I don't want to be accused of "forcing" my non-religion on others. It's a balancing act I have yet to master.
I try to talk about it without actually announcing I'm an atheist, but then I feel like a coward. Well, I am a coward. I have yet to announce on anything publicly that I'm atheist except, well, some atheist forums. Not very brave of me, right? I think that might be part of weak atheism as well, cowardice. I wanted to put this link and some others on my Facebook, but I need to make sure my brother won't tell my mom first.

[ziffel]

I try to talk about it without actually announcing I'm an atheist, but then I feel like a coward. Well, I am a coward. I have yet to announce on anything publicly that I'm atheist except, well, some atheist forums. Not very brave of me, right?

The good thing about being atheist, is that you can be ashamed of it, and not be in trouble with some god for doing so Why should I be ashamed of holding rational thought? Why shouldn't they be ashamed for believing in silly myths and fairy tales, and/or thinking the earth is 6000 years old, or that devils are flying around the sky making people do bad things?

I think what it boils down to is social pressure. No one wants to be ostracized, but think about who it is that might look down on you. Wouldn't it be the people who believe in the silly superstitions? What do we care what they think?

If a Christian ever dares to take me on in person, he's getting one sentence of my belief system for every one he gives me of his. We'll see who ends up weeping silently when all is said and done

[Whitney]

I think there is a difference between being ashamed of being an atheist and being afraid to tell people.  A person can be very proud of their rational position yet fear the reaction they may receive from less rational individuals.

I have a unspoken policy about not bringing up religion around classmates.  It's too personal of a subject and since my classes are studio based we have to be able to work together.  Also, since they aren't preaching to me I figure I should return the favor and not tell them why I think their beliefs are nothing more than ancient myths.

[derail]
I'm still not sure how to handle it around family.  None of the family I see on a regular basis are fundies...so I don't see a point in challenging their beliefs.  My mom has made a couple comments about a bitchy atheist coworker of hers as if being an evil bitch is a trait associated with all atheists.  My sister then of coarse chimed in because she pretty much believes everything my mom says about religious issues.  It was a bad time to say something like "well, do you think I'm an evil bitch..." (we were out shopping just before christmas) so I just said that I have a lot of atheist friends who have outstanding moral character and that it wasn't good to judge a whole group off the actions of one person.  I also probably looked a little pissed...and the conversation quickly came to a halt.  There have been a couple other times when religious subjects have come up around my mother...but I wasn't in the mood to have to explain why I don't believe in god...so I just gave her my opinion on the theology being discussed.  The last time we talked I told her that either all religions are right or they are all wrong because no loving god would allow so many wrong religions to exist.  She kinda laughed then said she was glad that I'm such a critical thinker.  So, I think I've laid some smooth foundations for coming out of the atheist closet to my mother.  

My dad's not very religious and already knows I'm not a christian.  He asked me one time if I "still believed in that jesus bullshit" .  So that was about the only time we have ever come close to discussing religion other than back when he use to have to keep up a christian front to please my mother.  
[/derail]

Anyway, when the conversation does come up, around people other than family, I have no problem saying I'm an atheist.  Depending on how religious the person is I may lead up to saying so with my opinion on organized religions.  But will always say I'm an atheist if asked directly or if there is no reason to lay out some sort of groundwork first.  I've found that (fundamentalists aside) no one really cares if I'm an atheist or not.  At most they will ask question about why then maybe tell me why they think I'm wrong.  If someone happens to get too emotional about it I'll tell them that we can continue the conversation when they are able to discuss calmly and rationally.  (I handle it a little bit differently if it's a case of a theist seeking out atheists to set them straight).

[Court]

You know, I try not to bring it up that often, but all anyone talks about here is god and jesus and how wonderful christianity is. It's kind of offensive because they seem to think that everyone is the same and should believe the same things, and I'm just tired of keeping my mouth shut. It's a good thing I'm not aiming to please anymore, because most people here see atheists as immoral, kitten-sacrificing sinners who will corrupt them. I'm very outspoken about everything else, so it's difficult for me to tell people when they get on the "praise god!" route of conversation.

My mom is not a fundie, but she's getting kind of close. I don't talk to my dad, so I don't really care what he thinks. My mom and I are so close, though, that it makes it really difficult not to talk about something so important.

I just think that the more mainstream we make it, the less of a stigma atheism will have. I refuse to avoid the subject anymore, and I refuse to be afraid of stepping on anyone's toes. It's ridiculous that I can be accosted by church-pushers in the student center, but I can't even tell my friends I'm an atheist.

[McQ]

I find the difficulties in family situations, more than anywhere else. I'm a father of four sons, with a devout Catholic wife. I was raised in that church and married in it when I was still a believer. Although that's not very accurate, because I always had doubts and never really bought into it all. Just went along because of societal and family pressures.

Anyway, it's difficult with family. I try not to be pushy with them, especially the kids. But I don't lie when asked about beliefs, and my kids ask all the time about various things in religion and science. I tell them to read the Bible and ask questions about it. Always ask questions. Question everything.

It's a delicate balancing act, but I do love my wife, and she knows I don't need to be a Christian (or of any religion) to be a good human being. One day I may get her converted...who knows?! LOL!

The biggest pain is my older brother and his ridiculously "Super-Catholic" wife. She actually had the stones to tell me I couldn't be cremated and have my ashes scattered over the ocean after my death because it's against the church's beliefs. I was tactful about it, but told her to piss off. Shit. If anything, she should have been against polluting the ocean with my dust!

She got the hint.

[Jassman]

It's a good thing I'm not aiming to please anymore, because most people here see atheists as immoral, kitten-sacrificing sinners who will corrupt them.

What!? So you're saying that you're an atheist yet you don't sacrifice kittens? I am excommunicating you from my non-religion.

I haven't had any problem being completely open about my atheism with my friends and acquaintances, even when I first shed my beliefs. I get different responses but usually just the "agree to disagree" thing. No one is really preaching at me, which is great. A few people seemed to have walked away from their discussions with me a little more open-minded about different opinions though.

My mom and I had a long discussion about religion shortly after I left and I didn't feel the need to mask or even water-down my opinions at all. At first I think she was a bit worried that I was losing my faith and didn't understand that I wasn't "losing my faith", I had no faith left at all. When she realized that all my points were valid and rock solid, she didn't seem to have a problem with my beliefs. It was an extremely liberating experience, because I don't have to sidestep controversial arguments around family anymore (atleast not my immediate family, anyway).

McQ, love the signature. I've seen every episode of Bullshit! and never miss an episode of Penn Radio.

[Court]

It's a good thing I'm not aiming to please anymore, because most people here see atheists as immoral, kitten-sacrificing sinners who will corrupt them.

What!? So you're saying that you're an atheist yet you don't sacrifice kittens? I am excommunicating you from my non-religion.

Aww, poor kittens.

[Jassman]

Haha... Reminds me of:



See? Don't worry it's not the atheists killing the kittens -- it's God.

And me, indirectly...

[Court]

Oh my god, I totally have a facebook group with that picture (only someone put McDonald M's on the little chicken nugget looking things) that's called "Every time you eat McDonalds, God kills a kitten."

Edit: I totally missed that "and me, indirectly" bit the first time. Lmao now, though.

[TwistOfCain]

Ahh, Domo-kun. The most magical of creatures. If only we knew how he spied on our junk.

[Aullios]

Every time someone posts that picture, a ninja chops the head off of a kitten and doesn't even care.

Think of the kittens.