Memory Going To Pot?

[Asmodean]

I understand how and why it's used, I just find it an obnoxiously emotive phrase used politically by people with an anti-drug agenda. The same people that would describe ANY drug use as abuse. You're not one of them are you, Asmo?

It's a little trite and subject to ... er ... abuse.

Oh, I am against the use of illegal narcotics, but nowhere near on the level of agenda - I keep my personal opinions on the matter personal.

There are several influencing factors to my stance on the subject, one of which I will name:

Directly or otherwise supporting a cynical and highly illegal trade in said substances. Basically, be you a user or an abuser, chances are you are still paying your supply chain's salaries.

Beyond that, I think my previous post made my distinction of drug use and drug abuse quite clear by the example of heroin.

[Siz]

I understand how and why it's used, I just find it an obnoxiously emotive phrase used politically by people with an anti-drug agenda. The same people that would describe ANY drug use as abuse. You're not one of them are you, Asmo?

It's a little trite and subject to ... er ... abuse.

Oh, I am against the use of illegal narcotics, but nowhere near on the level of agenda - I keep my personal opinions on the matter personal.

There are several influencing factors to my stance on the subject, one of which I will name:

Directly or otherwise supporting a cynical and highly illegal trade in said substances. Basically, be you a user or an abuser, chances are you are still paying your supply chain's salaries.

Beyond that, I think my previous post made my distinction of drug use and drug abuse quite clear by the example of heroin.

The problem you cite is more a result of criminalisation than use. Live and let live, Dude.

The line between use and abuse is a fuzzy one and prone to the disease of subjectivity.

[Asmodean]

The problem you cite is more a result of criminalisation than use. Live and let live, Dude.

As long as the street junkies don't bug me with their asking for free coin and the dealers don't ask me if I "need something" on every street corner, I have no real problem with them. On the streets of our glorious capital city, however, I consider them to be a problem in need of removing.

What musicians do for inspiration and stock brokers do for relaxation and the like, I couldn't care less about.

The line between use and abuse is a fuzzy one and prone to the disease of subjectivity.

Of course it is prone to subjectivity. We all have our subjective opinion on a whole mess of issues.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Now, that said, I do have a positive view of LSD use. I sincerely believe that everyone should have the opportunity to be exposed to LSD in a controlled environment. The 'mind expanding' moniker is not baseless - but not necessarily in a spiritual sense. It really opens up your mind to altered perspectives which I have found valuable in eveyday decision-making and personal interactions. A '4d' view, if you will.

Tank does not agree with you. Tank would say that if you use LSD, you are not a credible witness for any experience that arises out of that.  In other words, Tank would say that you are not credible when you suggest that LSD is mind-expanding. I'm more inclined to have a positive view of it, in a limited, controlled sense.

[Tank]

Now, that said, I do have a positive view of LSD use. I sincerely believe that everyone should have the opportunity to be exposed to LSD in a controlled environment. The 'mind expanding' moniker is not baseless - but not necessarily in a spiritual sense. It really opens up your mind to altered perspectives which I have found valuable in eveyday decision-making and personal interactions. A '4d' view, if you will.

Tank does not agree with you. Tank would say that if you use LSD, you are not a credible witness for any experience that arises out of that.  In other words, Tank would say that you are not credible when you suggest that LSD is mind-expanding. I'm more inclined to have a positive view of it, in a limited, controlled sense.

Actually, from what I have read LSD does have effects on the brain. And those effects can be long-term and hallucinatory in nature. Thus I would not consider anybody with a history of LSD use as capable of offering an insight into anything except the mind altering effects of taking LSD.

[Siz]

Now, that said, I do have a positive view of LSD use. I sincerely believe that everyone should have the opportunity to be exposed to LSD in a controlled environment. The 'mind expanding' moniker is not baseless - but not necessarily in a spiritual sense. It really opens up your mind to altered perspectives which I have found valuable in eveyday decision-making and personal interactions. A '4d' view, if you will.

Tank does not agree with you. Tank would say that if you use LSD, you are not a credible witness for any experience that arises out of that.  In other words, Tank would say that you are not credible when you suggest that LSD is mind-expanding. I'm more inclined to have a positive view of it, in a limited, controlled sense.

Curious post, Bruce. Is there some history here?

It's interesting how the experientially impotent have such a strong polarized view of LSD. You cannot evaluate a state of mind from what can be read.

Is Tank a credible witness on this subject?

[Asmodean]

Is Tank a credible witness on this subject?

He's Tank... Of course he's credible. Have you ever met an uncredible tank..? There are, of course, some incredible ones out there... So who knows  ???

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Now, that said, I do have a positive view of LSD use. I sincerely believe that everyone should have the opportunity to be exposed to LSD in a controlled environment. The 'mind expanding' moniker is not baseless - but not necessarily in a spiritual sense. It really opens up your mind to altered perspectives which I have found valuable in eveyday decision-making and personal interactions. A '4d' view, if you will.

Tank does not agree with you. Tank would say that if you use LSD, you are not a credible witness for any experience that arises out of that.  In other words, Tank would say that you are not credible when you suggest that LSD is mind-expanding. I'm more inclined to have a positive view of it, in a limited, controlled sense.

Curious post, Bruce. Is there some history here?

It's interesting how the experientially impotent have such a strong polarized view of LSD. You cannot evaluate a state of mind from what can be read.

Is Tank a credible witness on this subject?

The history is that I revealed an experience that I had regarding Jesus after I had taken LSD.  Tank posted something to the effect that I was not a credible witness, that my subjective experience meant essentially nothing, because I had taken LSD.  This, despite the fact that I informed him that my general Christian experiences over the past 40 years had nothing to do with LSD.  He took the position that because I had taken LSD 40 years ago, nothing I said about my 40 years of subjective experiences with Jesus were credible.  Seemed like an easy out to me, but, whatever.   I don't know if Tank is a credible witness or not.  I think that anyone who just concludes something on the basis of something they have read, and have not experienced it themselves, is lacking. But that's just my opinion.

[Siz]

Ah, yes, I remember reading that now. LSD certainly has a powerful influence.

In my own experience, I was CONVINCED that under the influence of LSD we could mind-read. Of course, for some inexplicable reason, we were unable to actually prove it! There were also many episodes of 'spiritual' experience. We enjoyed these as part of the fun but took no more meaning from them. I can certainly understand a compelling religious 'vision' whilst under the influence. I'm assuming, though, Bruce that your own Christianity is also based on more long-term considerations?

I had a friend who was a trainee priest. His (very sober) religious vision as a teenager had convinced him to enter the church in much the same way.

As an Atheist, I don't accept that your LSD vision was at all godly (similarly with my friends sober vision) but I have no reason to devalue your faith any more than I would anyone else's because of it.

As a separate issue, I have no doubt that thought processes brought about by my own LSD experience have woven themselves into the tapestry of my mind. I consider this alteration to be a benefit. It is not something I - or anyone else I know - has been able to effectively put into words. The best I can offer is like being given a stereo mind as against the mono of the uninitiated. Another 'channel' of thought running in parallel with the normal, giving a broader perspective.

If my children, once reached an age of responsibiliy (25+), asked me for my opinion, I would suggest they try it in a controlled way. They are at liberty to try, or not to try. And they can take away with them whatever they choose to from the experience. Though I would remind them of the possible misleading spiritual aspects.

[DeterminedJuliet]

Now, that said, I do have a positive view of LSD use. I sincerely believe that everyone should have the opportunity to be exposed to LSD in a controlled environment. The 'mind expanding' moniker is not baseless - but not necessarily in a spiritual sense. It really opens up your mind to altered perspectives which I have found valuable in eveyday decision-making and personal interactions. A '4d' view, if you will.

Tank does not agree with you. Tank would say that if you use LSD, you are not a credible witness for any experience that arises out of that.  In other words, Tank would say that you are not credible when you suggest that LSD is mind-expanding. I'm more inclined to have a positive view of it, in a limited, controlled sense.

Actually, from what I have read LSD does have effects on the brain. And those effects can be long-term and hallucinatory in nature. Thus I would not consider anybody with a history of LSD use as capable of offering an insight into anything except the mind altering effects of taking LSD.

I know a girl who used to take a lot of LSD and then started to have random flashbacks and episodes when she was sober. One time went to the washroom at work and she said she saw a tile float up out of the floor, rotate around and then sink back into the floor. She hadn't taken a thing that day.

That story alone was enough to scare me away from the stuff.

[Siz]

It's a common story. The reason why the Vietnam vets had such 'post-trauma' was the flashbacks from the ridiculous amounts of LSD they took while at war (which was tolerated by the superiors). Freakin' nightmare!

I had a very close friend who jumped out of a second storey window because he thought Timmy Mallet (Kids TV circa 1990) was trying to indoctrinate him into an evil club... (sound familliar, Bruce?  ). That's why it needs to be done in a controlled situation. (he broke a vertebrae and both wrists when he hit the concrete).

[Ecurb Noselrub]

I'm assuming, though, Bruce that your own Christianity is also based on more long-term considerations?

Of course. That was one experience, but I've found over the years that when I mention it, people discount everything else. But, in the interests of full disclosure, I have to mention it.

[Siz]

I'm assuming, though, Bruce that your own Christianity is also based on more long-term considerations?

Of course. That was one experience, but I've found over the years that when I mention it, people discount everything else. But, in the interests of full disclosure, I have to mention it.

I appreciate that. But do you not question the religious validity of that first spiritual LSD trip, regardless of anything that came after?

FWIW I'm sure you'd have found your way to god in any case if it's what feels right to you. I don't respect your faith any less because of the way you got to it. Your Christianity doesn't particularly bother me, but it's all an illusion to me.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

I appreciate that. But do you not question the religious validity of that first spiritual LSD trip, regardless of anything that came after?

FWIW I'm sure you'd have found your way to god in any case if it's what feels right to you. I don't respect your faith any less because of the way you got to it. Your Christianity doesn't particularly bother me, but it's all an illusion to me.

And that's the difference. One man's illusion is another man's reality.  All of this is subjective, and whether any portion of my experience corresponds to objective reality, I do not know for certain. That is why it remains in the realm of faith, and I make no claim to knowledge.  All I can say is that after 40 years, it continues to seem real to me, and while I realize that the LSD trip could have all been in my mind, my experiences over the past four decades have done more to confirm the validity of that experience than to undermine it. But I don't expect that to convince anyone but me.

[Siz]

Fair enough.

Maybe one last trip just to make sure...?