UFOs and the bible

[AreEl]

More reasonable, probably, but then I again I'm capable of stretching what 'reasonable' is to breaking point and nice to people who do not deserve it. iSok has done nothing to make me not want to be nice to him and be reasonable in my approach to his beliefs, which I place more or less on the same page as yours.

OK...Remember this link if you feel yourself getting soft on Islam:

www.thereligionofpeace.com

[proudfootz]

I went through an Erich Van Daniken / Velikovshy phase and find the topic of ancient astronauts interesting.

It now seems to me more likely that we haven't been visited by ETs because of the difficulties of traversing the distances involved.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were life - and probably intelligent life, too - out there.

I don't have much faith we'll ever get to a Star Trek level where we go out and meet all kinds of aliens who are basically just regular people like us.

But that doesn't mean science fiction isn't a fun genre to enjoy!

[Heretical Rants]

This is really off-topic, and probably not worth getting into, but

OK...Remember this link if you feel yourself getting soft on Islam:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

Do you have a good reason for excusing or ignoring the
crusades, the inquisition, etc. in olden days,
and the anti-birth control, anti-gay, and anti-human rights sects, abortion center shootings, etc. in modern times,
while still condemning Islam?

I mean, some would consider my position to be soft on Islam, but I at least try to be consistent...

[xSilverPhinx]

More reasonable, probably, but then I again I'm capable of stretching what 'reasonable' is to breaking point and nice to people who do not deserve it. iSok has done nothing to make me not want to be nice to him and be reasonable in my approach to his beliefs, which I place more or less on the same page as yours.

OK...Remember this link if you feel yourself getting soft on Islam:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

I don't want to further derail the thread, but it's something I have to ask: why Islam specifically? I mean, it's not a peaceful religion...granted, but care to look at religions in general for a bit? How about yours for starters?

Do you have a good reason for excusing or ignoring the
crusades, the inquisition, etc. in olden days,
and the anti-birth control, anti-gay, and anti-human rights sects, abortion center shootings, etc. in modern times, while still condemning Islam?

Not to mention the kind of damage that christian missionaries are causing in Africa in modern times, where societies are substantially backward. There are those who take Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live very seriously there. And then there's also the bible sanctioned killing of homossexuals. There's the spreading of the AIDS virus due to the Catholic church and a bunch of fundie loonies proclaiming condoms to be contrary to the divine order of things. Doesn't matter if the virus is alive, semi-alive or a different kind of alive, it kills people.

Read: http://www.hvk.org/articles/1008/97.html for a glimpse. Christianity is the religion of love, just as Islam is the religion of peace.

Sorry AreEl, but if your arguments are coming from emotionally charged loyalty to Christianity, they just aren't going to taken as seriously as you'd wish here. Christianity has just as much potential for damage as Islam and the fact that we didn't live through it's *worse times - prior to a more antropocentric view in the Western world - or in places plagued by missionaries nowadays doesn't lessen that.  

* "Worse" as in more similar to Islam and to the things in the link you posted.

What do you want to see happen to Muslims and by extension, Islam?  

But that doesn't mean science fiction isn't a fun genre to enjoy!

I love science fiction :shake:

*Edited to add info.

[The Magic Pudding]

Brian was abducted by aliens, and his life resembled that of Jesus in many ways, so it is quite possible Jesus got taken as well.  I'm thinking the aliens didn't want humans advancing and threatening them, so they planted this anti rational thinking virus (religion).  It all makes sense, what country has the most advanced space program? What country has the most reports of alien interference?  I'll give you a clue, it's the western country with the highest percentage of believers. :borg2:

[AreEl]

I don't want to further derail the thread, but it's something I have to ask: why Islam specifically? I mean, it's not a peaceful religion...granted, but care to look at religions in general for a bit? How about yours for starters?

This is really off-topic, and probably not worth getting into, but

OK...Remember this link if you feel yourself getting soft on Islam:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

Do you have a good reason for excusing or ignoring the
crusades, the inquisition, etc. in olden days,
and the anti-birth control, anti-gay, and anti-human rights sects, abortion center shootings, etc. in modern times,
while still condemning Islam?

I mean, some would consider my position to be soft on Islam, but I at least try to be consistent...

It is a bad idea to judge a philosophy by its abuse. States like the USSR, the People's Republic of China, and North Korea - to name but three - have all engaged in murder/torture. To say these nations did this because of state-atheism would be just stoo-pid. Some Christians link atheism with violence just as you link theism with violence. This is simplistic to say the least.  Perhaps a propensity towards violence and heaping abuse on your opponent is part of human nature. This would be consistent with what we observe.

My disagreement with Islam is on a more secular level. When immigrating in large numbers, Arab Muslims do not integrate well in the West. They come from violent societies and carry this violent culture into their host countries. They have a bizarre worldview that blames others for their problems. You will not notice this until you have one-on-one contact with them.

[Davin]

This is really off-topic, and probably not worth getting into, but

OK...Remember this link if you feel yourself getting soft on Islam:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

Do you have a good reason for excusing or ignoring the
crusades, the inquisition, etc. in olden days,
and the anti-birth control, anti-gay, and anti-human rights sects, abortion center shootings, etc. in modern times,
while still condemning Islam?

I mean, some would consider my position to be soft on Islam, but I at least try to be consistent...

It is a bad idea to judge a philosophy by its abuse.

Classic.

[fester30]

My disagreement with Islam is on a more secular level. When immigrating in large numbers, Arab Muslims do not integrate well in the West. They come from violent societies and carry this violent culture into their host countries. They have a bizarre worldview that blames others for their problems. You will not notice this until you have one-on-one contact with them.

If there is any violent culture that Arabs bring into host countries (I haven't seen much evidence of this), it's not due to their religion, but rather to the implications of being an immigrating minority.  Anytime you are a recognizable minority (skin color, language/accent, funny hats) immigrating into another land, the host nation will often blame you for taking their jobs.  If you fail to assimilate your culture into the host majority's (continue to wear funny hats, talk funny, or fail to change your skin tone) the host will attribute some of your practices and behaviors to inferiority, and use these things as reasons to hate you.  If you look at some of the mistreatment of American muslims in places like Michigan and Tennessee you'll see that they just want to live in peace and work and make a life for their families in the land of opportunity, but are often the VICTIMS of violence, not the purpetrators.  It's only so long before a peaceful minority becomes a violent one in those cases.

By your reasoning, Christians do not migrate very well into other lands, either.  There are a lot of Hispanics migrating to the USA from the south, and there is the occasional news story about violence and drug-running that finds its way to the newspapers or CNN (or top prime time Fox News story).  These Hispanics are primarily Roman Catholic.  Therefore, apparently Christians bring violence with them when they migrate.

I've also never noticed this "bizarre worldview that blames others for their problems" that you speak of in my Muslim friends.  Their worldview is actually closer to Christian worldview than mine is, as they view politics, religion, and morality very much the same as Christians (they want to ban abortion, think homosexuality is immoral, and wish to have more Islamic influence in government and law).  In fact, one of them agrees with many Christians that creation should be taught along with the big bang in public schools.   I think if YOU actually had enough one-on-one time (actual friendship) with some Muslims without any prejudicial views of them, you'd find that they are strikingly similar to you.

[Heretical Rants]

blah blah blah blah
while still condemning Islam?

I mean, some would consider my position to be soft on Islam, but I at least try to be consistent...

It is a bad idea to judge a philosophy by its abuse.

Classic.

Yeah, he's repeating my own implied argument back at me like it's a separate contradicting point, then changing his original argument to something just as contradictory in order to accommodate for it!

[proudfootz]

quote="proudfootz"]But that doesn't mean science fiction isn't a fun genre to enjoy!

I love science fiction :shake:[/quote]
I can understand why films would want to make the aliens humanoid - it helps viewers get into the story and is much cheaper to put antenna on an actor's head than come up with a really alien alien.

Now that we got CGI maybe things will open up a bit and we'll start seeing aliens who aren't just humans painted blue...

[Heretical Rants]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... fishAliens

[AreEl]

If there is any violent culture that Arabs bring into host countries (I haven't seen much evidence of this), it's not due to their religion, but rather to the implications of being an immigrating minority. Anytime you are a recognizable minority (skin color, language/accent, funny hats) immigrating into another land, the host nation will often blame you for taking their jobs. If you fail to assimilate your culture into the host majority's (continue to wear funny hats, talk funny, or fail to change your skin tone) the host will attribute some of your practices and behaviors to inferiority, and use these things as reasons to hate you. If you look at some of the mistreatment of American muslims in places like Michigan and Tennessee you'll see that they just want to live in peace and work and make a life for their families in the land of opportunity, but are often the VICTIMS of violence, not the purpetrators. It's only so long before a peaceful minority becomes a violent one in those cases.

I read your whole post and I gather that you must be from the USA. As things now stand, the USA has a very small Muslim population, an even smaller Arab population, and a still smaller Muslim Arab population. It is this last group that are the contentious ones. Another thing an American has to realize is that this Muslim Arab (MA) population will not start affirming itself until its numbers grow substantially. You need to see what has come about in Europe to understand what I'm talking about. In France, in Belgium, in Holland, in Sweden and even in Israel, whole areas of major cities are given over to MA with the police not enforcing local laws within these areas.  By accident, I entered a MA area in Paris last summer and on our walk from the parking garage to the subway every member in our party was afraid. We also went to Brussels but this time the guide book advised which neighborhoods to avoid. Ditto for Amsterdam when I was there in 2008. In other words, you still have it good in America.

By your reasoning, Christians do not migrate very well into other lands, either. There are a lot of Hispanics migrating to the USA from the south, and there is the occasional news story about violence and drug-running that finds its way to the newspapers or CNN (or top prime time Fox News story). These Hispanics are primarily Roman Catholic. Therefore, apparently Christians bring violence with them when they migrate.

Excellent example you brought up, excellent! In the USA, Hispanics are close to a plague and they have filled your prisons, street gangs and cheap labor.  Here in Canada where the hard winters seem to discourage people from southern coutries from immigrating, our Latinos are model citizens. Why? we don't have too many of them and they do not exile themselves in ghettos. It isn't religion as such, it is the population of an ethnic group within the total population which allows or discourages bad elements from expressing themselves. If I am with a bum, the bum will behave himself. If I am with two bums, the bums will affirm each other and act like bums.  

Here in Canada, we have a lot of immigration from north African countries like Morocco, Algeria, Tunesia, Lybia and Egypt; as well as from Lebanon and Syria. These people speak French and so can easily come to Canada by virtue of this alone. Our MA are your Latinos. There is a mosque 3 blocks away from where I live. Another one is 7 blocks away.

I've also never noticed this "bizarre worldview that blames others for their problems" that you speak of in my Muslim friends. Their worldview is actually closer to Christian worldview than mine is, as they view politics, religion, and morality very much the same as Christians (they want to ban abortion, think homosexuality is immoral, and wish to have more Islamic influence in government and law). In fact, one of them agrees with many Christians that creation should be taught along with the big bang in public schools. I think if YOU actually had enough one-on-one time (actual friendship) with some Muslims without any prejudicial views of them, you'd find that they are strikingly similar to you.

You need new friends! You don't really know me so you can't say that your Muslim friends' worldview is ''strikingly'' similar to mine. And even if we come to similar conclusions about some moral issues, we arrive at those conclusions in a very different manner. Bernie Madoff became incredibly rich, as did Warren Buffet; one is a crook, one is honest. If all you see is the result, you're missing something.

I have a Muslim friend, but he's secular and non-Arab; he's Turk. I am familiar with the Koran and have 2 copies here in my home (both printed in Maryland!). I'm also 54 years old, so I've had plenty of contact with MA, especially when I was in the shmatter business.  I travel frequently to Europe and I've seen that continent's degradation over the years. I am not engaged in an anti-Muslim KKK-style rant and I see no reason to be politically correct on this matter. My Turk friend feels the same way I do.

[xSilverPhinx]

I can understand why films would want to make the aliens humanoid - it helps viewers get into the story and is much cheaper to put antenna on an actor's head than come up with a really alien alien.

Now that we got CGI maybe things will open up a bit and we'll start seeing aliens who aren't just humans painted blue...

 

Eventually.

[Tank]

I can understand why films would want to make the aliens humanoid - it helps viewers get into the story and is much cheaper to put antenna on an actor's head than come up with a really alien alien.

Now that we got CGI maybe things will open up a bit and we'll start seeing aliens who aren't just humans painted blue...

 

Eventually.

District 9, a low budget offering that relied heavily on CGI did a pretty convincing job with the 'Prawns'.

[Heretical Rants]

District 9, a low budget offering that relied heavily on CGI did a pretty convincing job with the 'Prawns'.

That's still entirely humanoid. It looks like a bipedal insect robot, sure, but the body plan is still that of a human.