Anyone here have a theist significant other?

[philosoraptor]

But that's the thing-forcing veganism on children is EXACTLY like forcing religion on them, whether you see it that way or not.  You're passionate about the ethical treatment of animals, and other people are passionate about Jesus.  What it comes down to is the fanaticism.  The beliefs may be different, but the dogmatism is pretty much the same.  You're not willing to bend on the atheism and veganism thing.  Fine.  But you want other people to adopt your views (i.e. your girlfriend and future children), without being willing to accept the views they hold as well.  You're willing to allow a religious wedding, but are afraid it might go further than that?  Oh please.  What you really sound like is an asshole.  It's just very convenient that your girlfriend became vegan, AFTER you'd expressed your opinion on it.  If I were her, I'd be running the other direction.  The end point is that you aren't and weren't willing to accept her as a meat eating Christian, and that's fucked up.  You're no better than a religious person who is unwilling to respect atheists.  Again, you either love people or you don't.  And if you really loved her, you'd love her even if she also loved hamburgers and Jesus.

[Tank]

But that's the thing-forcing veganism on children is EXACTLY like forcing religion on them, whether you see it that way or not.  You're passionate about the ethical treatment of animals, and other people are passionate about Jesus.  What it comes down to is the fanaticism.  The beliefs may be different, but the dogmatism is pretty much the same.  You're not willing to bend on the atheism and veganism thing.  Fine.  But you want other people to adopt your views (i.e. your girlfriend and future children), without being willing to accept the views they hold as well.  You're willing to allow a religious wedding, but are afraid it might go further than that?  Oh please.  What you really sound like is an asshole.  It's just very convenient that your girlfriend became vegan, AFTER you'd expressed your opinion on it.  If I were her, I'd be running the other direction.  The end point is that you aren't and weren't willing to accept her as a meat eating Christian, and that's fucked up.  You're no better than a religious person who is unwilling to respect atheists.  Again, you either love people or you don't.  And if you really loved her, you'd love her even if she also loved hamburgers and Jesus.

Philo just wrote what I was thinking. When you have kids and they get invited to a birthday party at McDonalds what will you do?

[Martin TK]

I was trying to be a bit more diplomatic, but I have to say BRAVO to all those who answered so far.  I find that absolutism is not healthy no matter what.  I only advocate that when someone is absolutely against a habit or an action that will directly result in imminent harm.  I, like some of you, have some absolutes that I would not tollerate, but I wouldn't begin a relationship with a person who participated in certain activities.  I would NEVER get involved with a person who smoked, only because I had to bury my Mother after she suffered from lung cancer, and it was preventable.  I would never get involved with a Fundamentalist Christian, mainly because I know what the future with a person like that would most likely be, and I think I could find someone more compatible.  If that makes me a judgemental person, then I guess I'm lucky to be with the woman I'm with.  SMILE.

[philosoraptor]

It's one thing to chose not to associate with people whose lifestyle or activities you disagree with.  THAT is not judgmental.  It's a whole different ball game to become romantically involved with one of them, and then expect them to change for you after the fact.

[Martin TK]

But that's the thing-forcing veganism on children is EXACTLY like forcing religion on them, whether you see it that way or not.  You're passionate about the ethical treatment of animals, and other people are passionate about Jesus.  What it comes down to is the fanaticism.  The beliefs may be different, but the dogmatism is pretty much the same.  You're not willing to bend on the atheism and veganism thing.  Fine.  But you want other people to adopt your views (i.e. your girlfriend and future children), without being willing to accept the views they hold as well.  You're willing to allow a religious wedding, but are afraid it might go further than that?  Oh please.  What you really sound like is an asshole.  It's just very convenient that your girlfriend became vegan, AFTER you'd expressed your opinion on it.  If I were her, I'd be running the other direction.  The end point is that you aren't and weren't willing to accept her as a meat eating Christian, and that's fucked up.  You're no better than a religious person who is unwilling to respect atheists.  Again, you either love people or you don't.  And if you really loved her, you'd love her even if she also loved hamburgers and Jesus.

As much as I agree with the context of your reply, I'm not convinced that LOVE alone is enough to keep a relationship solid.  I have to advocate that having things in common, similar views on life and religion, are also important; however, saying that I have seen marriages work that I wouldn't have given a chance in hell to work.  So, I guess it's up to the two people in the relationship.

I think my biggest problem with the original post is the absolutism toward children.  I find that parents who have such unbendable rules, whether they be food, religion, education, or social; often find that it sets the table for children to look for ways to circumvent the "rules."  I also find that making absolutes before you have children will often make a liar out of you.  For instance, when I was young, I would say that I would NEVER allow my children to act unruly in public; boy was I made to look foolish on more than one occasion.

[Martin TK]

It's one thing to chose not to associate with people whose lifestyle or activities you disagree with.  THAT is not judgmental.  It's a whole different ball game to become romantically involved with one of them, and then expect them to change for you after the fact.

I completely AGREE with you on that.

[Tank]

For instance, when I was young, I would say that I would NEVER allow my children to act unruly in public; boy was I made to look foolish on more than one occasion.

Nothing you are ever told about having kids comes anywhere near the reality of holding that first baby and the realisation that you really know nothing about what being a parent is really about  

[philosoraptor]

My biggest issue with that first post would have to be the absolutism regarding children, too, for most of the reasons already mentioned.  And yeah, love is not always enough-having things in common definitely helps.  I just think it's very manipulative to get involved with someone, and then be like "Oh by the way, now that you love me and all, I can only take you seriously if you adopt my personal lifestyle choices."  Why does she have to be the one that bends?  It kind of reeks a little of male privilege, on top of everything else.  If you're not willing to date Christian meat eaters, than join a specialized dating service or something.

[Martin TK]

For instance, when I was young, I would say that I would NEVER allow my children to act unruly in public; boy was I made to look foolish on more than one occasion.

Nothing you are ever told about having kids comes anywhere near the reality of holding that first baby and the realisation that you really know nothing about what being a parent is really about  

You can say that again, I took care of younger siblings as a teen, but NOTHING prepared me for that first night at home with my first son, just me, him, and his mother.  I didn't sleep for a week, I was a mess.  It was the greatest time of my life.

[Tank]

You can say that again, I took care of younger siblings as a teen, but NOTHING prepared me for that first night at home with my first son, just me, him, and his mother.  I didn't sleep for a week, I was a mess.  It was the greatest time of my life.

Just thinking about my eldest daughter when she was couple of days old and thinking she's expecting my first grand child nominally 2 days after my 51st birthday in December. Quite choked up here, but in a nice way  

[Martin TK]

You can say that again, I took care of younger siblings as a teen, but NOTHING prepared me for that first night at home with my first son, just me, him, and his mother.  I didn't sleep for a week, I was a mess.  It was the greatest time of my life.

Just thinking about my eldest daughter when she was couple of days old and thinking she's expecting my first grand child nominally 2 days after my 51st birthday in December. Quite choked up here, but in a nice way  

Congrats, my friend! My son had his first son in December 2009, I was very proud of him and of my new grandson.  Pity that his Christian Fundamentalist wife thinks I am a heathen and forbids me from seeing my own grandson.  I'm not sure what she thinks will happen, it's not like I'm going to eat the kid or that he will self-combust in the presence of an atheist.  Unfortunately, my son, who was raised as a free-thinker and allowed to make his own choices, has fallen for the very same crap that is being discussed on this thread.  

I hope your relationship with your daughter is solid, I would not wish the empty feelings I have on anyone for any reason.  Thankfully, I have a wonderful wife now, who supports me, and I am a very strong-willed atheist who isn't about to allow anyone to hold the power of Jesus over my head.  I'll just wait until the kid is old enough to want to know his grandfather, then I'll show him that I am not the monster his Mother may have made me out to be.  Life is too short, I refuse to live it by someone else's rules.

[Martin TK]

My biggest issue with that first post would have to be the absolutism regarding children, too, for most of the reasons already mentioned.  And yeah, love is not always enough-having things in common definitely helps.  I just think it's very manipulative to get involved with someone, and then be like "Oh by the way, now that you love me and all, I can only take you seriously if you adopt my personal lifestyle choices."  Why does she have to be the one that bends?  It kind of reeks a little of male privilege, on top of everything else.  If you're not willing to date Christian meat eaters, than join a specialized dating service or something.

We are definately on the same page here.

[Tank]

Congrats, my friend! My son had his first son in December 2009, I was very proud of him and of my new grandson.  Pity that his Christian Fundamentalist wife thinks I am a heathen and forbids me from seeing my own grandson.  I'm not sure what she thinks will happen, it's not like I'm going to eat the kid or that he will self-combust in the presence of an atheist.  Unfortunately, my son, who was raised as a free-thinker and allowed to make his own choices, has fallen for the very same crap that is being discussed on this thread.  

I hope your relationship with your daughter is solid, I would not wish the empty feelings I have on anyone for any reason.  Thankfully, I have a wonderful wife now, who supports me, and I am a very strong-willed atheist who isn't about to allow anyone to hold the power of Jesus over my head.  I'll just wait until the kid is old enough to want to know his grandfather, then I'll show him that I am not the monster his Mother may have made me out to be.  Life is too short, I refuse to live it by someone else's rules.

I can't imagine your family life with your daughter-in-law. I would be apoplectic. I admire your cool sir!

Fortunately my wife has always been an atheist and all my kids and their partners are also atheists so I'm not facing the issues that you are putting up with. I was quite proud of my son as he spent the last semester at Berkeley with a Muslim room mate because they just got on well with each other. His partner is the daughter of two Vietnamese boat people who met in America where she was born. I have a lovely bigotry free family  

[Martin TK]

Congrats, my friend! My son had his first son in December 2009, I was very proud of him and of my new grandson.  Pity that his Christian Fundamentalist wife thinks I am a heathen and forbids me from seeing my own grandson.  I'm not sure what she thinks will happen, it's not like I'm going to eat the kid or that he will self-combust in the presence of an atheist.  Unfortunately, my son, who was raised as a free-thinker and allowed to make his own choices, has fallen for the very same crap that is being discussed on this thread.  

I hope your relationship with your daughter is solid, I would not wish the empty feelings I have on anyone for any reason.  Thankfully, I have a wonderful wife now, who supports me, and I am a very strong-willed atheist who isn't about to allow anyone to hold the power of Jesus over my head.  I'll just wait until the kid is old enough to want to know his grandfather, then I'll show him that I am not the monster his Mother may have made me out to be.  Life is too short, I refuse to live it by someone else's rules.

I can't imagine your family life with your daughter-in-law. I would be apoplectic. I admire your cool sir!

Fortunately my wife has always been an atheist and all my kids and their partners are also atheists so I'm not facing the issues that you are putting up with. I was quite proud of my son as he spent the last semester at Berkeley with a Muslim room mate because they just got on well with each other. His partner is the daughter of two Vietnamese boat people who met in America where she was born. I have a lovely bigotry free family  

I knew that my family, brothers, sister, father, would never accept me as an atheist, even though they all had to know I was an atheist all along, I never went to church and I raised my own children to think for themselves.  I guess the hardest part for me is that my oldest son was the deeper thinker of my two boys, he and I had long discussions on theology, life, science, just about everything.  I was sure he would always be, at the least, an open minded person.  Now, my youngest son was always the kid who lived his life by the seat of his pants.  He went through life with a recklessness, he was a good student but only because it came naturally; and he today is the Atheist and would NEVER allow another person to have the kind of power over him that my oldest has allowed.  Go figure.

[sleep_in_on_sunday]

But that's the thing-forcing veganism on children is EXACTLY like forcing religion on them, whether you see it that way or not.  You're passionate about the ethical treatment of animals, and other people are passionate about Jesus.  What it comes down to is the fanaticism.  The beliefs may be different, but the dogmatism is pretty much the same.  You're not willing to bend on the atheism and veganism thing.  Fine.  But you want other people to adopt your views (i.e. your girlfriend and future children), without being willing to accept the views they hold as well.  You're willing to allow a religious wedding, but are afraid it might go further than that?  Oh please.  What you really sound like is an asshole.  It's just very convenient that your girlfriend became vegan, AFTER you'd expressed your opinion on it.  If I were her, I'd be running the other direction.  The end point is that you aren't and weren't willing to accept her as a meat eating Christian, and that's fucked up.  You're no better than a religious person who is unwilling to respect atheists.  Again, you either love people or you don't.  And if you really loved her, you'd love her even if she also loved hamburgers and Jesus.

Wow, total thread derailment here... you guys are way off of the topic here now.  Now I feel I have to defend myself....again.

1) First of all, I did not force her to become vegan....I just want to re-establish this.  I have dated many meat eaters and god lovers in my day. But in order for me to start a family, I find it necessary to be able to find someone who shares my beliefs on the vegan topic since I will not raise my children to eat meat.

2) Second of all, Phila.....sorry, you just do not get it.  Not flexing on veganism is NOT like forcing religion on them.  When they are of age, I will let them make their own decision.  I do not want them to participate in the torturing and unethical treatment of animals while they are at a age when they do not understand. Seeing as you probably eat hamburgers and pork rinds, you are not in a position to judge me.  You are the one being like the judgemental asshole here.  I'm sorry if you are single and bitter.

Thanks for the namecalling...