What do atheists claim to know nothing about?

[Thom Phelps]

One, by demolishing the object he opposes, for example, you oppose tomato, so you go about destroying all tomatoes, tomato plants, and kill anyone who plants or will plant tomatoes.

Two, by avoiding the object of your opposition, for example with tomatoes, you flee from everywhere there is even just one tomato and all people who make use of tomato.

Now, I am a student of human behavior, so I am asking atheists whether they have got the correct concept of God; even though you say you used to be theists, but that does not necessarily imply that you do have the correct concept of God you are now opposing, or the essentially correct concept of God.

Again, I don't agree with your observation. As an atheist I don't want to destroy god (or religion) or flee from it. In fact, I surround myself with religion in the forms of art and books. It can be a beautiful and comforting thing. Some of the greatest achievements of mankind were motivated by religious faith and devotion. I see religion for what it is: a construct by humans. It's a multi-purpose tool for humans to use, sometimes for good and sometimes for evil. It's still just a tool, and sometimes represented by tools.

[Karras]

You are the ones opposing God, that is why you call yourselves atheists.

Now, you have got to have a correct concept of the God you are opposing, otherwise you are missing the target of your opposition.

Let's get one thing straight, though I expect I am wasting my time.

I do not oppose God or god(s) (you might want to drop the capital G as yours is not the only god we do not accept is supported by evidence). I do not claim to speak for everyone but that is how it is for me. I do not oppose fictitious characters. I might make comments on whether I would like to know them in real life. I might make judgements on their morality in the context of fictitious characters but I do not oppose them. If we are speaking about any particular concept of god (your concept not mine as I do not have my own), I will comment on whether observable reality provides evidence for them. I will also comment on them in the same context as a fictitious character but I do not oppose them. To do so requires that I accept their existence.

Since your starting premise is so woefully innacurate, there is no point commenting on the rest.

Now either there is some insurmountable language barrier here or you are a troll. My money is currently on a combination of the two, tbh.

So, unless you get the correct concept of God, you are into straw-man fallacy.

You mean like the straw man caricature that you are so gleefully erecting regarding atheism?

[Heretical Rants]

At this point he's just stopped caring about whether we think he is a troll or not.

[Karras]

At this point he's just stopped caring about whether we think he is a troll or not.

Maybe he could go one step further and not act like one....

To be honest, I am not sure I am buying the idea that language barrier is his problem. If he is sufficiently capable of using English to state "you oppose God", I can only assume he can also understand the response of "I do not oppose God", yet he just keeps repeating statements like this. There is not even any attempted to discuss it in the standard of English he has shown so far.

Not specifically Chinese but I have dealt with people with varying standards of English on a regular basis and just about all of them are able to at least try to hold a conversation. Just about all of them will at least try and answer questions and take on board new ideas. Results of course do vary but I have yet to see any indication that Yrreg is even trying.

[John09]

Back to atheists who claim to not know anything about some questions occupying the minds of mankind, I am thinking of drawing up a list of questions to which atheists generally answer to the effect that they know nothing, so that I need not bother them with those questions, except to say to myself and readers of web forums that atheists generally claim to know nothing about any answers to those questions.




This is the first time I come across an atheist web forum hosted by happy atheists.

That only means that I have not met all kinds of atheists.

Good, something new to know and to get better acquainted with.



Yrreg

I am new to this forum, so please forgive me for starting at the beginning.

Asking someone what they claim to know nothing about it crazy. This suggests on your part that those to whom this question is directed have a specific list of things, all things, about which they know nothing. Do you realize how many things there are in life that we don't even know about? If we don't even know about those things how could we possibly know that we know nothing about those things? If you know nothing about something, how can you know you know nothing about it?

Seriously, I would like to know exactly what things a theist such as yourself claims to know nothing about.

The assumption that a non-theist cannot be happy demonstrates a seriously limited experience with a variety of people. I am a newly de-converted christian,  and I can tell you for certain that many, if not most, christians are quite unhappy. The majority of christians I have known have been secretly tormented by an array of things that their religion has taught them. Many are tormented by the fear that they will end up in hell, that they are not "predestined to heaven", that they are not measuring up to the moral standard required of them to be "genuine christians", etc. Many are secretly tormented by the great gulf which exists between what they believe their god should be morally and what he actually is in both the scriptures and everyday life. They are also afraid to be honest about all these fears and torments because all the other christians around them walk about with a cooky colgate grin, pretending to be happy when they themselves are actually tormented by the same things.

Be amazed; Be very amazed that people who are not theists can be happy.

[Yrreg]

Okay, tell me what you know about God.




Yrreg

[John09]

Okay, tell me what you know about God.




Yrreg

Which god? The christian god? The god of the bible?

[templeboy]

You are the ones opposing God, that is why you call yourselves atheists.

Maybe that could be disputed, but it would be quibbling.

Now, you have got to have a correct concept of the God you are opposing, otherwise you are missing the target of your opposition.

That is being logical (or illogical).

How does an opponent act in opposition to the object whatever he opposes?

How do you know your concept of god is any more or less correct than ours?

One, by demolishing the object he opposes, for example, you oppose tomato, so you go about destroying all tomatoes, tomato plants, and kill anyone who plants or will plant tomatoes.

What the hell kind of comparison is that? Fruit is not, never has been, and never will be analogous to god.

Two, by avoiding the object of your opposition, for example with tomatoes, you flee from everywhere there is even just one tomato and all people who make use of tomato.

Sorry, its a terrible analogy.

Now, I am a student of human behavior, so I am asking atheists whether they have got the correct concept of God; even though you say you used to be theists, but that does not necessarily imply that you do have the correct concept of God you are now opposing, or the essentially correct concept of God.[/quote]
The concept of god, as I understand it, in its most general form, is a supernatural entity involved in creation (or some belief systems which hold the universe as eternal, which I don't want to exclude.) Some gods are (conceptually) more than that- they interfere, they love, they smite, they interfere. And as a rational person, I oppose this concept, because it is not a satisfying explanation for any phenomena.

When you have the at least essentially and very important essentially correct concept of God, then you can go about destroying God and all people who accept the existence of God, or even just the correct concept of God.

So, tell me, what do you think I have got wrong in my concept of god, bearing in mind that the concept I gave was in the most general form I could think of, so as not to exclude any deity that I could think of...

In that way you will have done with God totally so as to exist without God.

Your logic is very, very fallable. Now you are saying, that if I have a good concept of god, and I can empirically or logically disprove it, then my atheism must be right?

Or you avoid totally all kinds of so much as an inkling of God even just in your heart and in your mind, by deleting all whatever reminders of God and the correct concept of God from everywhere or all people who accept the concept and the existence of God.

Indeed not. The concept of god is a powerful poetic, metaphorical and hypothetical device, and to exclude it in such contexts would make me less of a human being.

How do you avoid all whatever reminders of God wherever you be?

I don't.

Don't be angry now, but I will give you a tip: quarantine yourselves in a desert island all by yourselves atheists.

Now, that is just trolling. Grow up.

Can you ever succeed to demolish God or to avoid God, even just the correct concept of God?

The general concept of god? No. Specific Deity? Yes.

So, unless you get the correct concept of God, you are into straw-man fallacy.

I agree. In the same way as you have been constructing a straw-man of every atheist.

About the evidence of God, that is a question that need not concern us here because it has been argued for since the knowledge of God dawned upon the heart and mind of people who accept God, and there is an impasse: you atheists claim there is no evidence, but theists claim there is evidence; so there.

"you atheists claim there is no evidence, but theists claim there is evidence; so there"? Fallacy. You are implying, if A disagrees with B, then A and B must both have valid positions.  

Now you have got to show theists that you have got the concept of their God correctly, but as usual I fear you will try to evade this issue.

Already given my concept of god, it is open to critique from anyone. So I am evading nothing.

And still continue to groan and moan about how much you are suffering from God and the people who accept God.

No I'm not. I'm not suffering from god, I'm not even suffering from people who "accept" god, although plenty on this forum have and/or are.



Okay, suppose you just tell me here in less than fifty (50) words what is the essential concept of God for Christians, and I will see whether you have got the correct concept of God, by comparing your formulation of your concept of God with the formulation of the concept of God from Christians, because Christians have a way of stating in a few words what is the essential concept of God they believe in.[/quote]
I've already done better than that.

And please forget about continually accusing me of being a troll, what indeed is a troll but for your purpose whatever it is that will convince the owners of this forum to ban me.

You are a troll when you make attacks or jibes like telling us to go live on a desert island. You are reasonable when you answer our points. We don't, or at least try not to, discourage theists from coming on to discuss in a mature manner, but there is a line between discussing and preaching that you have crossed once or twice. In saying that, you seem to have the best of intentions, and I'm 100% for giving you the benefit of the doubt in this case.

But the owners of this forum don't seem to agree with your idea of a troll if that is your only idea of a troll, namely, whatever it is that will move the owners here to ban me.

That doesn't make much sense, maybe lost in translation, but at the end of the day, its an atheist forum, run by atheists, so you follow the rules of the atheists, whether or not you agree with them, if you don't want to be warned or banned.

And also about my kind of English which you cannot understand but manage just the same to react to my messages copiously in words.

What? Some of your ideas come out awkwardly in translation, but for the most part, they are awkward, straw-man, tried and failed arguments, whatever the language. Without wanting to discourage you...

[John09]

I will tell you what I know about the god of the bible.

The god of the bible says it is wrong to lie. This same god told a spirit to speak lies through false prophets in order to deceive a king into going to his death ( I Kings 22: 19-23).

The god of the bible says it is wrong to murder and steal. This same god commanded his chosen people to murder men, women, and children just so they could take away their property ( Deut. 7: 1-5 )

The god of the bible, who wanted to teach his servant Job a lesson, allowed his partner in crime, satan, to kill all of Job's children and servants in one day ( Job 1: 12-19).

If, in case, you are thinking that all of this stuff occurred in the old testament and is, therefore, not applicable to today, remember that this god does not change ( Malachai 3:6).

With a friend like him, who needs enemies?

[Yrreg]

The topic of this thread is on "What do atheists claim to know nothing about?"

At this point of the thread, one of the things which atheists to my impression claim to know nothing about is God.

So, please just concentrate on giving me what is your concept of God, and I will tell you whether it is the concept of God from theists who are predominantly represented by Christians* in the Western World.



If you have already given me your concept of God, please just give me the link.

Please don't write so many words, just keep to the issue on hand.



Yrreg

*Henceforth abbreviated into

prbc.[/list]

[Yrreg]

Okay, let me ask you this question first, so that you can conveniently tell me what you know about God prbc.*

Just answer yes, no, don't care.



Do you know that for Christians God is the maker of everything?



Yes means yes I know that for Christians God is the maker of everything.

No means no I don't know that for Christians God is the maker of everything.

Don't care means I don't care, period.

I guess that is a most convenient way for you to tell me what you know about the concept of God from theists prbc.*




Yrreg

*

prbc means predominantly represented by Christians.[/list]

Yrreg

[McQ]

Just answer yes, no, don't care.


Do you know that for Christians God is the maker of everything?

Yes means yes I know that for Christians God is the maker of everything.

No means no I don't know that for Christians God is the maker of everything.

Don't care means I don't care, period.

I guess that is a most convenient way for you to tell me what you know about the concept of God from theists prbc.*

Yes, and I don't care for your baiting. You have not been honest about your intention here and have instead tried to manipulate others. You have consistently verged on, or have actually trolled. You need to stop the baiting and trolling and have honest discourse. You also fail to have any realization that there are people here, listed as atheists, who were christians and who know very well what christianity means.

Consider my answer a legitimate answer to your question and a warning to you to that you need to be honest and not simply try to win an argument that only you seem to be allowed to frame. Additionally, you will not preach. It will not be tolerated. You can whine all you want about how you are treated, but you have been allowed quite a bit of latitude here, so just deal with it.

[John09]

Okay, let me ask you this question first, so that you can conveniently tell me what you know about God prbc.*


Yrreg

I just conveniently told you what I know about god prbc.

Now you conveniently tell me why you want to be submissive to such a god that has worse morals than santa clause.

[Yrreg]

Okay, let me ask you this question first, so that you can conveniently tell me what you know about God prbc.*



Just answer yes, no, don't care.



Do you know that for Christians God is the maker of everything?



Yes means yes I know that for Christians God is the maker of everything.

No means no I don't know that for Christians God is the maker of everything.

Don't care means I don't care, period.



I guess that is a most convenient way for you to tell me what you know about the concept of God from theists prbc.*




Yrreg


*prbc means predominantly represented by Christians.

That above is my post immediately preceding the present one.

Now I am accused of baiting atheists, whatever that means it means that atheists here so far will not answer or will not tell me what is their concept of God.

Anyway, is there any atheist here who will answer my question or tell me the link to where he has said what is his concept of God?


And this thread is about "What do atheists claim to know nothing about?"



Yrreg

[Tom62]

Hi Yrreg. All your questions were answered before. Why don't you read them? If you continue asking the same questions over and over again, you are just wasting other people's valuable time.