I want to help.

[Hitsumei]

Satan is suppose to be the most intelligent angel, you're describing an emotional, and irrational being, not an intelligent one. Like all conspiracy theories, they rely on the conspirators both being ingenious, and irrational fools simultaneously.

[Godschild]

Satan is suppose to be the most intelligent angel, you're describing an emotional, and irrational being, not an intelligent one. Like all conspiracy theories, they rely on the conspirators both being ingenious, and irrational fools simultaneously.

Satan "Lucifer" was one of Gods top angels.Lucifer walked with God in Eden and other places and he was a very powerful angel...but he and all the angels were created with a freewill.To have freewill you must have emotions and yes I am describing an emotional and irrational being thats why he made such a bad choice.I do not understand why Lucifer made such a bad choice,why would one want to seperate themselves from God after living with the One who created them,how is it that Lucifer could believe he could overthrow God the one so powerful that He created Lucifer that is beyond my imagination? Please remember at this point in time there was no hell or the thought of hell so that means that Lucifer wasn't under any kind of threat,if you will,to be a good boy.Lucifer exercised his right of freewill emotionally as we often do and suffered the consequences.

  to all here's lookin at ya!

[Hitsumei]

...yes I am describing an emotional and irrational being...

Then you are going against Christian theology, which describes Satan as the most intelligent angel. Not irrational and emotional.

[rlrose328]

Please remember at this point in time there was no hell or the thought of hell so that means that Lucifer wasn't under any kind of threat,if you will,to be a good boy.

Ahhhh...

So you admit that the threat of hell is used to control behavior?

THIS is why churches have children's programs and work so hard to get children into the fold... use the threat of hell early enough and any child will succomb.

[Godschild]

...yes I am describing an emotional and irrational being...

Then you are going against Christian theology, which describes Satan as the most intelligent angel. Not irrational and emotional.

You must like picking out the little things to argue,did you not read all that I stated,apparently not because all I see is the same thing that's in your previous reply.Do you really know anything about christian theology if you did I don't think you would make such an erroneous reply.Lucifer was created with freewill and intelligences and for freewill to be valid there must be emotions involved.Lucifer used his freewill guided only by his emotions to make his very bad choice.Maybe if he had used his intelligence instead of his emotions he would not have made such a bad choice.I'm fairly sure that everyone has allowed their emotions to override their God give intelligence in making choices that wrong.I know I have.I'm fairly certain that everyone has used their intelligence to make good choices and I'm fairly certain that everyone has combined their emotions and intelligence to make rational choices.Lucifer was the created angel,he became the fallen one that is now called satan.                      

Please remember at this point in time there was no hell or the thought of hell so that means that Lucifer wasn't under any kind of threat,if you will,to be a good boy.

Ahhhh...

So you admit that the threat of hell is used to control behavior?

THIS is why churches have children's programs and work so hard to get children into the fold...

Ahhhh...I placed the"if you will"in the above reply for nonbelievers.NO!!!! hell is not used to control behavior you make it sound like all christians brainwash childern and it's not true and to say such a thing  is ignorant.To do something like that would be cruel and christians love their childern,now I know that this has happened and will probably happen in the future by a few christians and this type of christian is ignorant of what the Bible truly teaches or the same thing happened to them as children but it doesn't make it right not even close to right.We teach both sides of the question of God and hell and let the childern make their own choices it's a risk but it is only right.Why do the public schools not teach both sides of the origin of life question and then let the childern decide.Public schools want even allow anything about God so the childern can't decide on a question that doesn't have a sound scientific answer.If anyone wants to do the origin of life thing let's take it to the scientific section where it belongs.Back to the controled behavior thing why not go to a good christian church and observe what takes place we would be glad to have you just for that purpose.

  to all here's lookin at ya!

[rlrose328]

Ahhhh...I placed the"if you will"in the above reply for nonbelievers.NO!!!! hell is not used to control behavior you make it sound like all christians brainwash childern and it's not true and to say such a thing  is ignorant.

YOu may find it ignorant.  I find it truthful.  My son went to his friend's church with him after a sleepover.  I was totally okay with it... He adores this friend, I'm good friends with the mom and she knows my lack of belief.  They have a great Sunday school program... lots of arts and crafts, snack, etc.  I knew my son would enjoy it.

Two days after his fun day at church, I get an email addressed to my son at his email address (no one has that address but me, his dad, and his counsins).  It was a "come and have fun during our election games," a "fake" election last November.  It said it would teach the kids how the "other side" fights dirty and how they can fight dirty in return.  I wish I were kidding.

First, I asked my son how it came to his email address.  He said they were doing a contest and they asked each kid to complete this little form asking if they had fun, if they'd like to return, and that there would be a contest for the already-member kids that whoever got their friends to turn in the most, they'd get a prize.  You might see that as friendly competition... I see it as manipulative to a child whose parents aren't present.  So my son filled it out and put his email address.

Second, they have no right to send my child anything without my permission and I find it suspect that they asked an 8yo for his email address and not that of his parents.

Third, I find their pseudo-election thing a little offensive.  

My main problem is that kids this age don't know any better.  They will believe whatever the nearest authority figure tells them is the truth.  You'll tell your kids that god is real and that he has to treat bad people poorly so they'll learn. It IS brainwashing... mostly harmless, but I don't agree with programming children with anything belief-related.  Facts, yes... sprituality, no.  To them, it's all "if I behave, I'll go to heaven.  If I don't behave, god will be mad at me and I'll go to hell."  That is not how to raise children.

To do something like that would be cruel and christians love their childern,now I know that this has happened and will probably happen in the future by a few christians and this type of christian is ignorant of what the Bible truly teaches or the same thing happened to them as children but it doesn't make it right not even close to right.

I understand Christians love their children... that much I do know.  But... using scare tactics, like hell, is uncalled for.  It teaches children to go around the system to keep from making god angry.  The "strong father" model.  It is counterproductive in the end.  You say they are ignorant of the bible... but that's what the bible teaches!  It was "inspire" by a being who wiped out all the people on earth because he was mad at their behavior!

We teach both sides of the question of God and hell and let the childern make their own choices it's a risk but it is only right.Why do the public schools not teach both sides of the origin of life question and then let the childern decide.

You are honestly going to tell me that you teach both sides of the question of god... like there MAY be a god or there may NOT be a god?  Or got is happy when they are good but mad when they are bad?  Two very different concepts there.  

As far as "both sides" of the origin question, in what class do you want that taught?  If in science class, I'd have to say it can't be done because the biblical creation story has no science to back it up... not TRUE scientific FACT.  If you want to discuss the creation story in the UPPER grades (HS and up) in a religious studies class or even a literature class, I'd have no problem with that.  But it is not science.

Public schools want even allow anything about God so the childern can't decide on a question that doesn't have a sound scientific answer.If anyone wants to do the origin of life thing let's take it to the scientific section where it belongs.

Of course public schools won't allow anything about god.  Do you want them to teach Islam as well?  And Judaism?  And all of the other hundreds of religions on earth today?  Or just the Christian got?  Allow one and you must allow them all.  If you want children taught about god, take them to church.  But the Constitution states that the government (which provides money to public schools) cannot play favorites with religion, so all or none, the government is forced to choose none, rightly so.

Back to the controled behavior thing why not go to a good christian church and observe what takes place we would be glad to have you just for that purpose.

Sweetie, I was raised in a good Christian Lutheran church.  I've read the bible.  I've observed what goes on in a church and what the people are like.  I'll take nonbelief any day of the week.

[Godschild]

YOu may find it ignorant. I find it truthful. My son went to his friend's church with him after a sleepover. I was totally okay with it... He adores this friend, I'm good friends with the mom and she knows my lack of belief. They have a great Sunday school program... lots of arts and crafts, snack, etc. I knew my son would enjoy it.

This church your son went to that has lots of arts,crafts,snacks and ect.if they are not incorperating Bible study with these things then they are not being responsible with the childern,responsibility God has given them.Going to church is not only fun and games.I also like the fun and games but Bible study must be a part of the program.I hope that he did enjoy his visit.

Two days after his fun day at church, I get an email addressed to my son at his email address (no one has that address but me, his dad, and his counsins). It was a "come and have fun during our election games," a "fake" election last November. It said it would teach the kids how the "other side" fights dirty and how they can fight dirty in return. I wish I were kidding.

I wish you were kidding too,I do not like it when a church tries to use those kinds of tactics it's not the way christians should act.As I said in my other reply I know some do.

First, I asked my son how it came to his email address. He said they were doing a contest and they asked each kid to complete this little form asking if they had fun, if they'd like to return, and that there would be a contest for the already-member kids that whoever got their friends to turn in the most, they'd get a prize. You might see that as friendly competition... I see it as manipulative to a child whose parents aren't present. So my son filled it out and put his email address.

Second, they have no right to send my child anything without my permission and I find it suspect that they asked an 8yo for his email address and not that of his parents.

Third, I find their pseudo-election thing a little offensive.

I would have been mad to if any organization had done such a thing without the parents permission that is totally out of line.It's good to hear that you monitor your childs  E-mail,so many parents don't and not to do so can have harmful results.Now about the forms I think they can be a good tool for the church to use as long as the questions are stated so young childern can understand them and they are resonable questions.When childern tell what they liked and disliked the church can adjust its programs.
I do not believe I would care for such an election exercize either if the church did what you stated they did thats not being responsible with the childern.

My main problem is that kids this age don't know any better. They will believe whatever the nearest authority figure tells them is the truth. You'll tell your kids that god is real and that he has to treat bad people poorly so they'll learn. It IS brainwashing... mostly harmless, but I don't agree with programming children with anything belief-related. Facts, yes... sprituality, no. To them, it's all "if I behave, I'll go to heaven. If I don't behave, god will be mad at me and I'll go to hell." That is not how to raise children.

I agree that childern are vunerable and impressionable and we need to be very careful how we teach them.Of coarse we tell childern that God is real what else would christians teach other.We[my church]do not teach that God treats people badly.We also do not believe in programming a child for any reason that would be a violation of their freewill which would be wrong.We do teach that there are consequences to making wrong choices and that God may allow one to suffer through the consequences from bad choices,and we teach that God is a loving God and will help them through the consequences of wrong choices.Teaching a child or adult that being good will get them in heaven or that being bad will send them to hell would be false teaching.What should be taught to people is that your choice of either having Christ in your life or not having Christ in your life is what makes the difference.

To do something like that would be cruel and christians love their childern,now I know that this has happened and will probably happen in the future by a few christians and this type of christian is ignorant of what the Bible truly teaches or the same thing happened to them as children but it doesn't make it right not even close to right.

I understand Christians love their children... that much I do know. But... using scare tactics, like hell, is uncalled for. It teaches children to go around the system to keep from making god angry. The "strong father" model. It is counterproductive in the end. You say they are ignorant of the bible... but that's what the bible teaches! It was "inspire" by a being who wiped out all the people on earth because he was mad at their behavior!

Let's get this scare tactic thing straight,I do know some churches use scare tactics and that is wrong.We[my church]do not use scare tactics we want childern and adults to come to Christ because He loves them and this is what we teach.We know when people choose Christ out of fear of hell that they will have difficulties in the future with what and why the believe,I know this personally and I struggled for a long time until God led me to a good church with great teaching,thanks be to God my Savior.This is why we do not teach fear and it's why we teach love.We do teach about hell and that it is a place of punishment.We do not teachthat hell is a place of punishing that would imply that God tortures and that's not true He is the God of love.You will not find much in the Old Testament about hell but you will in the New Testament and the reason Jesus taught more about hell than He did about heaven,the reason He did was so people would know that God desires all to be in heaven with Him forever than to be eternally seperated from Him.So you see the Bible teaches that God is love and desires that all would choose to be in heaven forever with Him.Now about the great flood,God did not destroy everyone because of their behavior.All the people of the earth had become evil in their hearts so evil that they were thinking of new ways in which they could be evil and new ways to be evil to each other.God knew that their hearts had become so evil that there was no possibility of redeeming them and this mad God sad.Mankind had become so evil God was sorry He had created man so He destroyed all but Noah and his family to rid the earth of evil so that mankind could have a fresh start and hope for the future.All the childern that I know see God as a good God for ridding the earth of such terrible evil,kind of like a hero.Kids want heros if they did not then there would be a lot of comic book writers out of job,I know that He's my hero and so much more.  

I need to stop for now I will finish this reply: to all here's lookin at ya!

[curiosityandthecat]

All the childern that I know see God as a good God for ridding the earth of such terrible evil,kind of like a hero.Kids want heros if they did not then there would be a lot of comic book writers out of job,

That's the dangerous part. God's not a hero. Not even close.

I know that He's my hero and so much more.

That makes me sad. It's the only word I can think to use. Just... sad.

[PipeBox]

I don't know what to say about the flood anymore...
I'm sorry you didn't take my post to be a serious assessment of the flood story.
Ask yourself what the sole thing backing it up is.  Or if you find any other evidence of a global flood, please, share it with me.

The only thing I can think to add to all of this, and talk of any disaster, is to ask if God couldn't find a more humane way (isn't that ironic) to execute the people he was unhappy with.  Take all the people of the Earth in Noah's day, assuming the biblical story is true for just a moment.  God sees that all the people are wicked, and they will seldom do more than further their wickedness, against nature and themselves (surely GOD wouldn't feel set at risk by man), and decides to start over.  He decides all men except the one family must perish, down to the last child, to put a fine point on it.  And he decides that the mode of his extermination, the method of his execution, will be none other than drowning.  Drowning every last animal, poisoning the fish, and letting birds who were not seaworthy drown after the most prolonged, desperate exertion of their lives.  Every man, woman, and child would suffer the same nightmarish fate.  Because they were too evil for God's liking.

Now let's assume that story is entirely true.  God is a sadistic monster.  

Fortunately, that story is just as fictional as the Epic of Gilgamesh.  I'll put it to you simply.  Scorpions have no nostrils, Noah wouldn't have boarded them, they cannot swim, and nothing else looks close enough to their form for even the most daring creationist to claim they "adapted" within their distinct "kind" after the flood.

I don't think I have any evidence you will accept, though.