I am antiabortion because I am an atheist

[VanReal]

In Mexico City, left wing political party has the Reclusorio Oriente jail fulled of men accused for butt touching in the subway. Thas accusations use to be a feminazi dirty trick to get money from the man who was accused.

Funny when I search for news articles on this phenomena I can't find anything but when I google this I do find you on another forum using this same bit of information with a short YouTube video.  So, can you provide us with dollar amounts of verifiable information that this is a major issue and is costing so much money....I figured you would be able to since you appear to be the internet authority on this issue.  I will keep looking though.

[cyberateos]

Van Real:

Why would it disappear? Because of your registry plan? Did abortions disappear when they were illegal?

Read carefully what I wrote:

I believe that the word "abortion" should dissapear in the next year, to be sustituted by other words such as: spermaticide, blastocistide, embryocide, feticide, etc.

Read it CAREFULLY. You misunderstood me. I did NOT say that abortions will dissapear but that the WORD abortion will dissapear because it is imprecise.

And this would be policed by whom?

An Intrauterine Life Department of a Institute for the Defense of Minors would follow the cases.

The fact that you can say they are equally important is absolutely ridiculous. A fetus lives off of the mother, it can not live outside of her body and doesn’t have any inherent rights or qualities while doing so. You feel that someone killing your mother should be punished the same as someone that aborts a fetus?

I feel that a person who has killed my mother or my intrauterine daughter should be shot equally.

No, actually that is not true and they are not punished as committing a felonious criminal act.

Here in Latin America, a divorced man who refuses pay for his children may be locked into jail.

So you are advocating that people choose to go without prenatal care and birth at home alone to avoid your registry. This is what would happen. Much like women received dangerous back alley abortions before they were legal, they would simply not seek the prenatal care and birth at home and dumpster the baby. This would be a massive step backwards.

Precisely to avoid it, during an initial period, fetuses would be registered only in the 13th week. Then, abortionist would continue killing embryos during that initial period, but registered fetuses would not be easy to kill because a full murder sentence would be applied.

You are very misinformed. Post partum depression is real and was around long before it arrived in court for a defense for bad acts committed from those suffering from it. You don’t have to be a feminist or a woman to understand that hormones and chemical interactions cause deficiencies and emotional disorders in the brain.

Ha, ha, ha... Lots drunk men have killed their wives while they were in a "no normal" physical state, but regardless it, they were punished.
Punishment is not 100% effective, but is HIGHLY effective.

There is nothing magical about thinking that an abortion, while it’s not the ideal form of birth control, is justifiably okay. There is nothing scientific nor magical about this issue, it’s a social issue and a moral issue for some but neither magical nor scientific.

False. Only a magical background leads to discriminate intrauterine population.

And let’s assume she is indigent, which is why she didn’t want the baby in the first place.

Also, do you have any idea how many children are currently waiting for adoption and end up aging out of the state systems? This thinking is economically and socially irresponsible, as you are not even remotely considering the quality of life these children have.

If the mother is indigent, a surgical sterilization would be offered to her, and she would be forced to pay at least one dollar for year. That money would not help at all, but would have an educational goal: women and society should begin to consider that women have parental duties, just as men have. :brick:

Yes, these are the same people running through Africa telling everyone using a condom is a sin. However, you have used this before and stated that this word, among others, will replace abortion in the near future, so assume you are in agreement even though you state you are not.

???? I don`t understand you, but I feel you did not understand me.

Source please. And he should keep his freakin’ hands to himself!

In Colombia, Mexico and Argentina, several cases have occured, and even in Egypt and Italia:


http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/334152.html
http://www.elperiodicoextremadura.com/n ... kid=328949

Please stop with the feminazi shit. We get it, you don’t like it. But, your view on this particular issue is WAY more attributable to nazi philosophy/thinking than anything feminists' attempt of social or legal change.

Look at this link:

http://margaretsanger.blogspot.com/2005 ... hetto.html

Ah, now we are getting somewhere. Why did we have to go through all of this to get here. Please start the thread you actually wanted to. “Men have been replaced by women and the women are emasculating us. Let’s strike back and convict them of murder for having abortions”!!

Abortion is not always linked to feminazism. In China and India it occurs the opposite.

[cyberateos]

DIY138:

Canada is NOT an example of the defense of rights. Remember the massive murder of seals.

Dou you know who are Morgentaler and Linda Gibbons?

[cyberateos]

As to all your "feminazi" BS, well, I'm hoping Hitsumei comes in here and rips you a new ass, but suffice it to say I think you're sexist.

You noticed that too did you?  Hmmm, he's mentioned that (1) fathers would be off the hook on this, (2) women would have to pay for the adoptions, (3) "just like men who pay for things after divorce" (several times on this one), (4) women's rights have cost countless dollars bill footed by society, (5) women are equal to floting fetuses, (6) and we have the nerve to complain about drunks slapping us on the ass!! (Many more but I am recalling the last few posts alone.)

It took a while to get to the meat and potatoes of this one, yikes, I really feel like I must now go outside and find a man to berate and then call the cops on him.

VanReal:

Have you listened about Mandefender?

[cyberateos]

In Mexico City, left wing political party has the Reclusorio Oriente jail fulled of men accused for butt touching in the subway. Thas accusations use to be a feminazi dirty trick to get money from the man who was accused.

That political party also maid abortions legal. Would not it be more logical to use that jail space and expenses in punishing abortionist women instead of virtually innocent men? :brick:  :brick:  :brick:  :brick:  :brick:  :brick:  :brick:  :brick:  

I'm done with this misogynistic bullshit. You want reproductive rights curbed. You want "Abortionists" thrown in jail and executed. You cannot understand that the rights and wellbeing of the actual come before the rights and wellbeing of the potential.

I'm done.

To say that intrauterine persons are "POTENTIAL" life is a religion-based theory.

I am an atheist and my religion is SCIENCE.

[cyberateos]

Here is an interesting link:




http://antimisandry.com/

http://antimisandry.com/

[VanReal]

Van Real:

Read carefully what I wrote:

I believe that the word "abortion" should dissapear in the next year, to be sustituted by other words such as: spermaticide, blastocistide, embryocide, feticide, etc.

Read it CAREFULLY. You misunderstood me. I did NOT say that abortions will dissapear but that the WORD abortion will dissapear because it is imprecise.

I understood exactly, I don't think you do.  You say you think the word abortion should disappear and be replaced by those other words.  Why would/should that word dissapear?  What would make something as specific as an abortion merge in with these other propogranda inflamed words?

And this would be policed by whom?

An Intrauterine Life Department of a Institute for the Defense of Minors would follow the cases.

Where are they obtaining their authority?  Who are the members of this organization?  What makes them have international authority over something like abortion?

Here in Latin America, a divorced man who refuses pay for his children may be locked into jail.

Yes, a divorced man is still responsible for his children, sorry.  If this is wrong, as you have used it as an example in serveral posts, maybe the couple should have had an abortion to avoid this.

Precisely to avoid it, during an initial period, fetuses would be registered only in the 13th week. Then, abortionist would continue killing embryos during that initial period, but registered fetuses would not be easy to kill because a full murder sentence would be applied.

No, you don't understand.  If a regulation on registering a fetus was inacted and a woman did not want to have the baby, and of course she can't have an abortion, she is going to forgoe prenatal care altogether and will not have medical care so there will be no doctor to enforce the registery.  Hidden pregnancies like this occurred in China.  Hidden pregnancies like this occurred in North America, Europe and Latin America for that matter. History repeats itself.  This "registry" would simply drive women back underground to handle things under the radar and perpetuate the problem.

Ha, ha, ha... Lots drunk men have killed their wives while they were in a "no normal" physical state, but regardless it, they were punished.
Punishment is not 100% effective, but is HIGHLY effective.

No, millions of people would not rob banks. The fact that it's illegal has nothing to do with that. If a person wants to commit a crime they are going to regardless of it being against the law and possibly landing them in jail.  Um, why do you think jails are full of criminals?  

Punishment simply punishes after a crime has been committed.  It does not deter future crimes from occurring by other people.  You specifically said that this would keep other women and "abortionists" from killing a fly.  That is simply not true and I want you to provide a statistic that shows that deterrence works.  (Pull up the population of the number of people in prison and that is evidence that it's not effective.)

False. Only a magical background leads to discriminate intrauterine population.

First, I don't know what a true atheist is.  Second, the fact that there is no soul only makes abortion make more sense and easier to stomach.  There is no "essence" or inherent value in a fetus, it is a fantastic and interesting, amaing even, division of cells that grows and matures into a human being if born.  So, as an atheist I absolutely can discriminate against fetuses in the womb, they are not a person until born.

If the mother is indigent, a surgical sterilization would be offered to her, and she would be forced to pay at least one dollar for year. That money would not help at all, but would have an educational goal: women and society should begin to consider that women have parental duties, just as men have. :brick:

What the hell does folic acid have to do with any of this?  

???? I don`t understand you, but I feel you did not understand me.

This has nothing to do with what I said.

In Colombia, Mexico and Argentina, several cases have occured, and even in Egypt and Italia:


http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/334152.html
http://www.elperiodicoextremadura.com/n ... kid=328949

The first was useless and from 2006 and the second was from 2007 and talked about a whopping 6 people.  Not at all convincing of any horrible "men being thrown in jail for but grabbing" epidemic occuring.  I would suggest that men keep their hands to themselves.  

Look at this link:

http://margaretsanger.blogspot.com/2005 ... hetto.html

Again, totally unrelated to the topic.  This is about Nazi's wanting abortion clinics in minority areas.  This has nothing to do with feminism or any correlation between feminism and the nazi thinking.  

Abortion is not always linked to feminazism. In China and India it occurs the opposite.

I know that it is not.  You however are getting your views from being against women wanting rights over their bodies and decisions and imasculating men by doing so.  It is so obvious in your posts that you have an issue with women, and that your views on abortion are less about the rights of the fetus as a person and more about getting even with women and punishing them for their evil ways.

[Hitsumei]

I've seen cyberateos make no actual points, or argue a case. All I have seen is appeals to emotion, the use of emotive language, and false analogies; and most recently venomous misogyny. Nothing has been actually argued for, I'd like some points to rip apart, but I don't see any. I don't see anything worthy of addressing, and even if I did before the OP's misogynistic leanings were made explicit, I certainly am not willing to have a civil discussion with someone who considers me less of a person than themselves. Having my rights placed on par with a being emotionally and intellectual inferior to an adult cow is bad enough.

Abortion is an emotionally charged subject, and it is hard to discuss it without becoming emotional, but there is no excuse for this behaviour.

[PipeBox]

He has to be a troll.  

I'm with Curio, the rights of the actual outweigh those of the potential.  I'm with VanReal, you're a sexist bigot.  I'm with Hitsumei, you've no point to offer.  I'm with what I said earlier: your sense of justice is a joke, killing anyone who breaks your unjustified law.

I'm out of here.

[DIY 1138]

Deleted by poster

[cyberateos]

VanReal:

understood exactly, I don't think you do. You say you think the word abortion should disappear and be replaced by those other words. Why would/should that word dissapear? What would make something as specific as an abortion merge in with these other propogranda inflamed words?

Current scientifical knwoledge is doing obsolete lots words.

For example, the word "fetus" is imprecise, because a baby who can`t survive without medical aids, but who can survive into an artifitial incubator is really a kind of fetus.

Blastocysts and full term fetuses could not be killed 40 years ago.

Morullas could not be killed in vitro 30 years ago.

Punishment simply punishes after a crime has been committed. It does not deter future crimes from occurring by other people.

False. If punishment would not exist, I and other antiabortionists personally would have killed lots of abortionist doctors and politicians. :eek:

Dear silly boy, women are very responsible for their children, take a look around at all of the women raising their kids alone. Are you insinuating that women are running rampant and not taking care of their babies?

Women have lots of facilities to avoid their duties. Is Belgica and USA they have even the right to leave an undesired baby in special baskets.

There is nothing biological in that. This is a societal difference. Jains believe that all life is equal, including insects, and that killing even an insect by breathing would be the same as killing a human being. (Thus they wear thick cloth over their nose and mouth.) The fly and the fetus are more similar that the fetus and your neighbor.

I would send to jail a guy who enjoys ripping the wings of a butterfly.  

[cyberateos]

Hitsumei:

I certainly am not willing to have a civil discussion with someone who considers me less of a person than themselves.

Strawman`s fallacy.

[cyberateos]

PipeBox:

I'm with VanReal, you're a sexist bigot.

Strawman`s fallacy

[Whitney]

PipeBox:

I'm with VanReal, you're a sexist bigot.

Strawman`s fallacy

Ah hem...pot, meet kettle:

otherwise, you would need psychiatric help if you really don`t make any differentiantion between a minor into a cradle and a minor into a womb, and you counfound the latter with a "division of cells that grows".

The only difference is that the kettle isn't nearly as black*  

*(Pot calling kettle black reference)

[cyberateos]

PipeBox:

I'm with VanReal, you're a sexist bigot.

Strawman`s fallacy

Ah hem...pot, meet kettle:

otherwise, you would need psychiatric help if you really don`t make any differentiantion between a minor into a cradle and a minor into a womb, and you counfound the latter with a "division of cells that grows".

The only difference is that the kettle isn't nearly as black*