If We (Humans) Ever Meet Intelligent Aliens?

[Kyuuketsuki]

I saw this in another forum (not taking credit for an idea not mine) and I thought it was quite an interesting subject :crazy:

Kyu

[karadan]

I completely agree. The majority of intelligent extra-terrestrial life we encounter will probably be bi-pedal. Quite a few boffins have done research on this exact question and a lot of them agree with this principal.

There will of course, be other intelligent life based upon more elaborate chemistry. For instance, what would an alien from a gas giant look like? Probably quite flat and without any redeeming human features

I like the idea that procreation may be wildy different to our own, though. Extra sexes for instance. Male, female and 'apex', to name one theory.

If carbon based, they more than likely will posess pan-humaniod basic features.

[Wraitchel]

Sorry, but I think a lack of imagination has led us to think that life can only evolve toward intelligence if it follows a path almost identical to ours. I think the odds of alien life paralleling our development so closely is pretty small. Life is an amazingly adaptable force. Life on our planet has adapted to almost every extreme, and given time, who knows which of our native life forms will eventually develop intelligence. I also think it is typical human ego centrism and narrow mindedness that leads us to believe that intelligence on this planet is solely a characteristic of humans. I think that our hands have enabled us to manipulate our environment in ways that have led to the need for very complex linguistic capabilities. Whales have very large brains, language, social relationships and conventions. Perhaps if they had hands and could make and use tools, they would have complex societies and enough common ground intellectually to communicate with us. I can imagine body parts that in no way resemble hands that could allow aliens to manipulate their environment and create tools, and therefore intelligent societies, with or without being bipedal. For example, how about a creature with several tongues? What if a creature had tentacles or cilia-like protrusions all over that allowed it to manipulate things as well as we do? I think the possibilities are close to infinite.

R

[curiosityandthecat]

I hope we never meet intelligent life, because, were it sufficiently technologically and culturally advanced to reach us, it would most likely have one of two responses: a) pity us and our primitive ways, see that we are a danger to ourselves and it is simply a matter of time before we destroy ourselves, and thus put us out of our misery, or b) see us as the parasite we are and dispose of us like a bad case of fleas. Either way, it couldn't end up well.

[Kyuuketsuki]

I hope we never meet intelligent life, because, were it sufficiently technologically and culturally advanced to reach us, it would most likely have one of two responses: a) pity us and our primitive ways, see that we are a danger to ourselves and it is simply a matter of time before we destroy ourselves, and thus put us out of our misery, or b) see us as the parasite we are and dispose of us like a bad case of fleas. Either way, it couldn't end up well.

Now THAT is a view I completely and utterly agree with and have advanced for many, many years. I think it was dumb of us to send Voyager out with all that information on it ... hey look boys, come kill us and live in our houses  

Kyu

[Asmodean]

I hope we never meet intelligent life, because, were it sufficiently technologically and culturally advanced to reach us, it would most likely have one of two responses: a) pity us and our primitive ways, see that we are a danger to ourselves and it is simply a matter of time before we destroy ourselves, and thus put us out of our misery, or b) see us as the parasite we are and dispose of us like a bad case of fleas. Either way, it couldn't end up well.

c) find out that we taste good and dispose of us in a stew.

[curiosityandthecat]

c) find out that we taste good and dispose of us in a stew.

Really, though, I just can't shake the feeling that, were we to meet other intelligent life, they would be so absolutely alien (...duh) as to be dangerous. We can't even get along with each other yet; the odds of us getting on with an alien race is slim to none. They would seem like... gods.

[McQ]

I doubt it would be humanoid at all. That is a very narrow and anthropomorphic view of the universe. In all of the Earth's billions of years history, among all of the life that has ever evolved (don't forget that most life that has ever existed is extinct), only the tiniest fraction has even been mammalian, let alone primate. Most life hasn't even been animal.

Look at our planet now and look in the oceans. We can see the most different looking and functional things from us there. Even terrestrial microorganisms are enormously "alien" from us in form and function.

Intelligence, so called, does not require bipedal form. It doesn't even require a hard skeleton.

[Asmodean]

If a meteor didn't go boom some millions years ago, maybe the Earth today would have been populated by intelligent reptiles...   And the sad part is that they would likely have done far better than us humans.

[karadan]

I hope we never meet intelligent life, because, were it sufficiently technologically and culturally advanced to reach us, it would most likely have one of two responses: a) pity us and our primitive ways, see that we are a danger to ourselves and it is simply a matter of time before we destroy ourselves, and thus put us out of our misery, or b) see us as the parasite we are and dispose of us like a bad case of fleas. Either way, it couldn't end up well.

With all due respect, that's nonsense. A technologically superior race will have had to overcome all shortfalls of a society to reach the space faring plateau. You either destroy yourselves or you overcome the differences which hold you back and you mature. This would mean greed, prejudice, hate, religion and all the bad stuff the human race currently possesses wouldn't be part of an alien society. It is pretty ridiculous to suggest an alien intelligence would be aggressive. That is anthropomorphisation. What would they gain from blowing us away? They are the ones living in an infinitely abundant universe with the means to exploit it. Just as we say, the more intelligent you are, the less likely you are to believe in god. You could also say, the more intelligent the race, the less likely they are to be collectively aggressive.

The most likely attitude would be of study. We'd be studied just like we study animals in the rain forest. That's taking into account that they will actually care enough to watch us. The human race may be in a stage of social evolution similar to many others, and most alien civilisations know to stay the hell away from us for now due to our rabid ability to invent new and improved ways to kill each other.

Convergent evolution isn't something confined to just our planet, i do believe. There is an enormously complicated theory devised by Ken McLeod and Iain M Banks regarding the convergent evolution of bi-pedal humanoids throughout the cosmos. It stipulates that 70% of life forms which reach a technological plateau enabling space travel, which come from rocky planets (including lots of water) orbiting a type 3 star and which are carbon based, would be bi-pedal. I can't remember the specifics but it was enormously persuasive. This does NOT by any means suggest that intelligence has to be on two legs (a misconception i think some of you may have derived from my first statement). It just suggests that the bi-pedal form has the easiest and quickest route toward a space-faring state. I'm sure, given time, whales would eventually evolve to include manipulatory 'digits' so that they are able to shape the world around them and move towards the stars (assuming that is even a prerogative of theirs).

Also, there are theories which suggest that our planet is very rare in it's makeup. If a planet forms with H2O as a mainstay of its makeup, then that planet would be fully covered with water or simply a ball or rock with underground reservoirs. Getting equal amounts of each on the surface is as improbable as the moon being the right distance away to exactly eclipse the sun. How long would it take for a species living on a planet covered only by water to become space-faring? Where would the matter come from to make things? Pretty much the only heavy elements would be from meteorites. Imagine how long their evolutionary curve would be! They certainly wouldn't be bi-pedal but unfortunately would be subject to a higher possibility of being wiped out by an extinction level event (supernova, asteroid etc) before they are able to start exploring the cosmos. That is a main reason the bi-peds have an advantage.

The main reason we are here today is because our biological form works. There is no reason to suggest that it wouldn't work just as well elsewhere given similar conditions. If our galaxy really is teeming with intelligent life then bipeds probably only make up a fraction of the total because our biosphere makes up a fraction of the total galactic habitable living space. There are LOTS of gas giants out there and they are generally really big.

[Kyuuketsuki]

Really, though, I just can't shake the feeling that, were we to meet other intelligent life, they would be so absolutely alien (...duh) as to be dangerous. We can't even get along with each other yet; the odds of us getting on with an alien race is slim to none. They would seem like... gods.

My reasoning for the view you & I both seem to agree on is that evolved species are pretty much all aggressive on one level or another and compete for resources and that our ventures into space, whilst currently more scientific, will eventually be territorial and resource based so again aggressive ... it seems to me that any other evolved species, even though not of terrestrial origin, would be much the same. I genuinely believe in peaceful and cooperative co-existence but the truth, something non-violent pacifists seem to ignore, is that peace needs to be policed and, if necessary, enforced. Humans are violent animals and it takes a lot of effort for groups of us to go against that basic nature (doesn't seem so hard on an individual level).

Kyu

[karadan]

Really, though, I just can't shake the feeling that, were we to meet other intelligent life, they would be so absolutely alien (...duh) as to be dangerous. We can't even get along with each other yet; the odds of us getting on with an alien race is slim to none. They would seem like... gods.

My reasoning for the view you & I both seem to agree on is that evolved species are pretty much all aggressive on one level or another and compete for resources and that our ventures into space, whilst currently more scientific, will eventually be territorial and resource based so again aggressive ... it seems to me that any other evolved species, even though not of terrestrial origin, would be much the same. I genuinely believe in peaceful and cooperative co-existence but the truth, something non-violent pacifists seem to ignore, is that peace needs to be policed and, if necessary, enforced. Humans are violent animals and it takes a lot of effort for groups of us to go against that basic nature (doesn't seem so hard on an individual level).

Kyu

That is only relevant when there is limited living space, ie, confined to a planet. As soon as a civilisation can spread its wings into space, all of that will go away. Unlimited resources = nothing left to fight over.

[Kyuuketsuki]

That is only relevant when there is limited living space, ie, confined to a planet. As soon as a civilisation can spread its wings into space, all of that will go away. Unlimited resources = nothing left to fight over.

That's a very idealistic POV and one, given human history, that I think its incredibly hard to justify.

Kyu

[curiosityandthecat]

With all due respect, that's nonsense. A technologically superior race will have had to overcome all shortfalls of a society to reach the space faring plateau. You either destroy yourselves or you overcome the differences which hold you back and you mature. This would mean greed, prejudice, hate, religion and all the bad stuff the human race currently possesses wouldn't be part of an alien society. It is pretty ridiculous to suggest an alien intelligence would be aggressive. That is anthropomorphisation. What would they gain from blowing us away? They are the ones living in an infinitely abundant universe with the means to exploit it. Just as we say, the more intelligent you are, the less likely you are to believe in god. You could also say, the more intelligent the race, the less likely they are to be collectively aggressive.

Whoever said anything about aggression? When you kill a hornet nest in your shed, would you consider that aggression? How about the fleas, like I mentioned earlier? A flea bath for your dog falls into the aggression category? There are a number of reasons why one would want to destroy a population of lower lifeforms (albeit unfortunate for them, surely). All I said is that they would likely exterminate us, not that they would hate us or feel malice towards us.

The point I was trying to make is that any culture (if one can be so presumptive as to call an alien race a culture; who knows how their society would be built) that can survive long enough to be sufficiently advanced as to reach us, in the backwaters of the Milky Way, would have to be so wholly different as to see us not as a threat, but as a pest (no different from any other species; we wouldn't be special to them) or such a threat to ourselves that we most likely wouldn't survive, anyway.

Okay, that was a long sentence.

I completely agree that as intelligence goes up, superstitious belief and wanton aggression go down. That's demonstrable. However, I'd also imagine that when intelligence gets to that point, it moves beyond the more "human" aspects of empathy and sympathy. It would be calculating. It would most likely study us, yes, but what could it find that it hadn't found already? We'd be just another self-destructive carbon-based lifeform depleting its own biosystem and starting petty wars with itself. Probably hostile, given sufficient technology. Painfully short-sighted. Illogical. Low chance for survival.

We're also assuming that the alien race would have any interest in us whatsoever. They could just see us as the hairless apes we are, just with the addition of tools. What we consider the greatest achievements in the universe could be nothing more than parlor tricks to them.

On the other hand, if we're the most advanced intelligence in the universe, then I'd say we're pretty screwed.   Incidentally, you might be interested in reading Signal to Noise and Blindsight. Both really, really good books with interesting takes on alien encounters.

[Kyuuketsuki]

On the other hand, if we're the most advanced intelligence in the universe, then I'd say we're pretty screwed.

ROFLMAO ... it's like that Monty Python Song innit?

So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.

The Galaxy Song

Kyu