News:

The default theme for this site has been updated. For further information, please take a look at the announcement regarding HAF changing its default theme.

Main Menu

RIP Roe v. Wade

Started by Ecurb Noselrub, June 28, 2022, 01:01:34 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Ecurb Noselrub

Roe v. Wade is gone. The constitutional right to an abortion is no more. This brought to mind the question of where rights come from. I re-read the concurring opinion of Justice Arthur Goldberg in Griswold v. Connecticut (1965 case recognizing right to privacy related to contraception), and was reminded of his argument in favor of the 9th Amendment as the best foundation for all these cases. That neglected amendment says that just because a right is not specifically enumerated in the Constitution, that does not mean it does not exist. Going back to the Declaration of Independence, the political philosophy underlying our nation's founding is that rights are endowed by "the Creator" - whether you think of that Creator as a theistic God, a deistic God, or the God of Nature. Rights are not created by the Constitution. They arise naturally and are acknowledged and protected by that document. A right can be recognized that is not enumerated in the Constitution. When we talk of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in the Declaration, the right to the pursuit of happiness is not mentioned in the Bill of Rights. But Jefferson said it exists. How can one pursue happiness without some degree of autonomy over his/her own body? How can we be happy without some degree of privacy? While no right may be absolute in all cases, it exists, and may have to be weighed against other rights. But the rights of autonomy and privacy seem absolutely fundamental to a society that says it is "conceived in liberty" (Gettysburg Address). Overturning Roe v. Wade was wrong.

With Roe gone and the underlying right to privacy hit and taking on water, it is only a matter of time before same-sex marriage and even the right to buy contraception end up on the scrap heap. The Supreme Court is forcing extremist Catholicism on us all. And if those people affected are not free, then I am not free, either.

ADD YOUR MESSAGE

Bluenose

The solution IMHO dear American friends is to get out and vote, vote like you have never done before, everyone effected by this dreadful decision and who is opposed to it, get out and vote this November.  Elect a tidal wave of blue representatives to both houses of congress, elect blue candidates in your local areas.  Stop the GOP/xtian Taliban in its tracks.  Then look at means to redress the unbalance in SCOTUS, oh, and maybe do something concrete about gun control too, while you're at it.
+++ Divide by cucumber error: please reinstall universe and reboot.  +++

GNU Terry Pratchett


Icarus


Asmodean

I'm with Nose. Go vote, people! Win or loose, make yourself count.

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on June 28, 2022, 01:01:34 AMA right can be recognized that is not enumerated in the Constitution.
This is a question of semantics, but I wonder...

What is the practical difference between "recognising" a right and "creating" one? One day you may be legally prevented from exercising it, then the next day - not. Is it just a matter of background? I can see how "recognise" would imply that there was a process by which the right-to-be evolved, so to speak, while "create" implies something more inorganic and committee-like. Or is there a practical distinction?

Same question would do for striking down a right and revoking recognition.

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

billy rubin

. . . snd do NOT vote absentee because the republicans are doing all they can to invalidate those in afvance.

i used to vote absentee all the time. never again.


News has been received from the Punjab that the Amritsar mob has again broken out in a violent attack against the authorities. The rebels were repulsed by the military and they suffered 200 casualties.

Tom62

The Democrats had several times in modern history the majority in the House and Senate. Stupid question from a foreigner: Why didn't they use that opportunity to create a federal abortion law?
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Gnostic Christian Bishop

Strange that whites who are thought by the left to be racists, are making laws where they will increase the darker colors of their populations, while decreasing over time, the white taxpayers who will support the darker change.

A strange thing to do to ones socio economic demographic pyramid.

Regards
DL

Asmodean

I'll second Tom's question.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

jumbojak

Quote from: Asmodean on June 29, 2022, 09:35:28 PMI'll second Tom's question.

For the same reason that Republicans never repealed the National Firearms Act. It gives their base something to be motivated about.

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

Asmodean

Ah... The actual job of the elected official coming a distant second to having a path to being (re-) elected... Cynical. I can see that happening if not always, perhaps still enough.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

billy rubin

Quote from: Tom62 on June 29, 2022, 08:53:23 PMThe Democrats had several times in modern history the majority in the House and Senate. Stupid question from a foreigner: Why didn't they use that opportunity to create a federal abortion law?

NOT A STUPID QUESTION.

the democrats represent big monied intetests and dont give a shit about average people.

obama claimed to want to do what you are asking when elected but a year later stated that "roe is not my biggest priority."

the democrats take tbeir supporters for granted and are surprised they cease to be supporters

they actually gave money to an anti abortion democrat in order to beat a pro choice candidate in the primary. the antiabortion guy won by about 150 votes.


News has been received from the Punjab that the Amritsar mob has again broken out in a violent attack against the authorities. The rebels were repulsed by the military and they suffered 200 casualties.

Ecurb Noselrub

Quote from: Asmodean on June 29, 2022, 08:11:16 AMWhat is the practical difference between "recognising" a right and "creating" one? One day you may be legally prevented from exercising it, then the next day - not. Is it just a matter of background? I can see how "recognise" would imply that there was a process by which the right-to-be evolved, so to speak, while "create" implies something more inorganic and committee-like. Or is there a practical distinction?


Good question. IMHO, there is a practical difference. For example, if the right of privacy, upon which are based many SCOTUS decisions, including Roe v. Wade, is considered "created" by the Constitution, then for literalists, there is no such right, as the Constitution does not mention a right to privacy.

However, if the right to privacy is "acknowledged" or "recognized" under the 9th Amendment, then it is a natural right, and is protected. Then Roe v. Wade is upheld. The literalists now have the majority in SCOTUS, so they overturned Roe v. Wade. The practical difference is that women no longer have the right to determine their own medical treatment and no longer have autonomy over their own bodies.

There is no Constitutional basis for Congress to pass an anti-abortion law, IMHO. The US Congress has limited powers to enact laws, and medical decisions are traditionally left to the states. If they attempted to pass such a law under the Interstate Commerce Clause, then they would run into the filibuster powers of the minority party in the Senate. Dems would have to have have at least 60 members in the Senate to overcome the filibuster. It is one of the quirks of USA law. Dems have not had this power in recent history except for a brief time in 2009. https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/did-the-democrats-ever-really-have-60-votes-in-the-senate-and-for-how-long/  It would have been nice to see a law then, but it did not happen. So Dems missed their one opportunity. But then, Roe v. Wade seemed secure. No one anticipated Donald Trump getting 3 SCOTUS nominees.

But Dems have rarely been as aggressive as the GOP. Dems do not have the killer instinct that the GOP has. 

jumbojak

Quote from: Asmodean on June 29, 2022, 10:10:10 PMAh... The actual job of the elected official coming a distant second to having a path to being (re-) elected... Cynical. I can see that happening if not always, perhaps still enough.

Being an MOC is a sweet gig. You receive a handsome salary, excellent benefits, a bulletproof retirement, and the opportunity for insider trading, grift, etc. Even if you were elected with the best of intentions, the corrupting influence of your new peers seems almost inescapable for freshmen in Congress.

"Amazing what chimney sweeping can teach us, no? Keep your fire hot and
your flue clean."  - Ecurb Noselrub

"I'd be incensed by your impudence were I not so impressed by your memory." - Siz

billy rubin

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3542471-biden-calls-for-filibuster-carveout-to-protect-abortion-rights?utm_source=hill_app&utm_medium=social&utm_content=share-link

well this was a long time coming.

QuotePresident Biden on Thursday said the Senate should carve out an exception to the 60-vote filibuster to codify abortion rights after the Supreme Court overturned the precedent set by Roe v. Wade.

biden has been playing the dead bipartisan card since he started. eliminating the filibuster is long, long overdue, and it should go away permanently.

now that mr milquetoast has gotten out in front of his constituency finally, he needs to learn how to twist arms so what he proposes can actually pass.

if its just more talk and no tesults, his second term is history.



News has been received from the Punjab that the Amritsar mob has again broken out in a violent attack against the authorities. The rebels were repulsed by the military and they suffered 200 casualties.

Icarus

May as well insert a little bit of humor...