The soul and the spirit

[Magdalena]

What is the difference between the soul and the spirit?
As you were growing up, what were you told about your spirit and your soul?
I've heard animal have souls....
I've heard you can sell your soul. Has anyone here? To whom and for how much?
I've heard it can burn eternally...
Others want to give it "back" to the "lord". Does this mean it comes with a warranty?
Just curious. 

[xSilverPhinx]

Can they please properly define what 'soul' is?

[fester30]

Soul is a music genre.  Spirit is something strong to drink.

[xSilverPhinx]

Soul is a music genre.  Spirit is something strong to drink.

I don't know why I was expecting that sort of answer, 'cept I was expecting Ecurb to say it.

[OldGit]

spirit (n.)
mid-13c., "animating or vital principle in man and animals," from O.Fr. espirit, from L. spiritus "soul, courage, vigor, breath," related to spirare "to breathe," from PIE *(s)peis- "to blow" (cf. O.C.S. pisto "to play on the flute"). Original usage in English mainly from passages in Vulgate, where the Latin word translates Gk. pneuma and Heb. ruah. Distinction between "soul" and "spirit" (as "seat of emotions") became current in Christian terminology (e.g. Gk. psykhe vs. pneuma, L. anima vs. spiritus) but "is without significance for earlier periods" [Buck]. L. spiritus, usually in classical L. "breath," replaces animus in the sense "spirit" in the imperial period and appears in Christian writings as the usual equivalent of Gk. pneuma. Meaning "supernatural being" is attested from c.1300 (see ghost); that of "essential principle of something" (in a non-theological sense, e.g. Spirit of St. Louis) is attested from 1690, common after 1800.

So they seem to say that the distinction crept in late on, spirit taking the wider meaning and soul being the thing that goes to heaven or hell.

Some other languages make a similar distinction - Ger. Geist / Seele, but French esprit no longer means SPIRITVS, and soul is âme.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

current in Christian terminology (e.g. Gk. psykhe vs. pneuma, L. anima vs. spiritus)

This part of the definition has evolved in some modern evangelical theologies to mean that "psykhe" (soul) relates to the mind (reason, emotion, will) while "pneuma" (spirit) is most inner component of a human that relates to God (revelation, intuition).  So you have the tripartite anthropology of body, soul and spirit. It is the spirit that is reborn in the Christian experience, so that it begins to live in faith in God. 

[Crow]

Ancient Theories of Soul

Thats an interesting read if you are interested.

[Magdalena]

Ancient Theories of Soul

Thats an interesting read if you are interested.

Wow, that's a lot of info to process, thanks.

[iSok]

Concerning the Spirit, the following might be interesting as an introduction.


"The Quran states, "They are asking thee concerning the Spirit.
Say: The Spirit is by command of my Lord, and of knowledge ye have been vouchsafed but little." (17:85)
The Quran does not go into much depth into this question, although both Adam and Jesus were created by the Spirit or
Breath of God, the latter being named the "Spirit of God" (ruh Allah). In fact each person is essentially a Spirit of God.
During the Night of Power the angels and the Spirit descend, which has lead some commentators to associate the Spirit with the Angel Gabriel.
While we can speak of the Spirit as a macrocosmic (or microcosmic) personification, such as the
Spirit of Muhammad (al-ruh al-muhammadiyyah), Jesus or Gabriel, for example, it seems that the
descent of the Word, the Quran, simply revealed the Universal Spirit (al-ruh al-kulli), first as the Spirit of the Prophet and
then as the Spirit of the believers to themselves. However, Gabriel did reveal the Word and the Spirit to the Prophet, and the Quran and the Prophet reveal the Spirit to us.
Gabriel and then the Prophet become like our own angelic double in Suhrawardi's vision, our higher Spirit that calls us to return from this occidental exile.

The Universal Spirit is the cosmic or immanent reflection of the Supreme Self (al-Dhat), the barzakh or isthmus that connects and separates the Divine and corporeal worlds, and the vertical axis that connects man to the Transcendent. It is synonymous with the Intellect (al-'aql) or the eye of the heart ('ayn al-qalb); a luminous substance that is both created and uncreated and can therefore act as an inner and outer intermediary, depending on our point of view, between the Creator and creation. The Spirit is the peak of the created order and the lowest level of the Divine order.

It seems that Christianity on the other hand is based explicitly on the doctrine of the Spirit in the two natures of Christ, which in fact reveals the two natures of man, the Spirit, and the way of ascent. I think that the Quran was providentially reluctant on this question to keep these two faiths distinct although it transposes it to the Book and secondarily to the Spirit of the Prophet and the Spirit as such in Islamic esoterism. I think that there is much to the gained, however, by examining both traditions' understanding of the Spirit side by side in the same way that we can compare their visions of the Absolute (Islam being arguably more explicit and clear on this matter).

I am not certain about the next world. It seems to me that something of the soul and its various levels must remain until it returns to its Lord, hence the need for hell, purgatory, and heaven. The Spirit like the angels, being like quasi-divine attributes, must retain their existence in the Garden until they are reabsorbed into the Garden of the Essence, which itself contains all multiplicity in Unity. And God knows best.

You might also look at René Guénon's essay "Ar-Ruh" in his Insights into Islamic Esoterism and Taoism and Frithjof Schuon's chapters "The Quranic message of Sayyidna 'Isa" and "An-Nur" in his Dimensions of Islam. Both identify the Spirit with the Metatron (Mitatrun) of the Kabbalah, which does not contradict its association with the Spirit of the Prophet in Islam or Christ in Christianity. See Guénon's chapter "Shekinah and Metatron" in his The King of the World."

— "Zachary" From Traditional Studies Discussion Forum (2nd post in thread)


(Edited to add link to source. — Recusant)

[Non Quixote]

Concerning the Spirit, the following might be interesting as an introduction.

TLDR

Actually not quite accurate, I read far enough to realize that the post was doing everything except answering the question.

[Crow]

Wow, that's a lot of info to process, thanks.

Yeah its a bit wordy but worth it if you are interested in the concept. As the Christian and Islamic ideas of the soul are an expansion of the ancient Greek philosophers it gives a sold base for understanding the concept.

[Recusant]

It's very nice to see you here again, iSok. Do you post on another forum under the name of "Zachary"? If not, you should have given a citation or link to this page, from which your answer appears to have been directly copied. See the HAF "NO PLAGIARISM" rule.

[iSok]

It's very nice to see you here again, iSok. Do you post on another forum under the name of "Zachary"? If not, you should have given a citation or link to this page, from which your answer appears to have been directly copied. See the HAF "NO PLAGIARISM" rule.

Hello Recusant, nice to see you too.

No, I am not the author (Zachary) of that text, but the fact that I 'italicized' that part should have made that clear from the start.
Anyway, thank you for notification, I will cite the souce from now on.

[Norfolk And Chance]

current in Christian terminology (e.g. Gk. psykhe vs. pneuma, L. anima vs. spiritus)

This part of the definition has evolved in some modern evangelical theologies to mean that "psykhe" (soul) relates to the mind (reason, emotion, will) while "pneuma" (spirit) is most inner component of a human that relates to God (revelation, intuition).  So you have the tripartite anthropology of body, soul and spirit. It is the spirit that is reborn in the Christian experience, so that it begins to live in faith in God. 

And it's all made up.

[Crow]

And it's all made up.

And a total waste of time.