Religion in Society - Diffusion or Polarization?

[Dobermonster]

For awhile, I thought that the trend of religion in the west was toward tempering and liberalizing. Religion alive, but seen in less absolutes; secular reasoning becoming the zietgeist of modern politics. Then - especially with events in the US over the last few years - it comes to mind that it may be heading towards a division between the secular and the pious. Yes, a lot of progress has been made with dismantling religion-based laws, but there also seems to be a rise in the fundamentalist region - or maybe just a rise in the hubbub they make, not sure. I'm starting to think we may end up with two large poles - the truly secular and the truly religious. It's all speculation, of course, but I'm interested to hear what people think.

PS: Sincere apologies for the use of 'zietgeist'.

[Recusant]

For the U. S., the statistics which are available (one example) suggest that there is a decrease in people self-identifying as religious. Whether this is accurate or not is another issue. If such numbers are accurate, then what we're seeing is not more fundamentalists, but fundamentalists making more noise than in the past, as well as getting more influential by becoming prominent in the Republican party. Whether they will continue to have the influence they do now is another question. Personally, I think that they will marginalize themselves with their extremist views, though it may take another decade or two.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

There is a fundamentalist backlash to the rapid change that is going on in American society. It represents sort of a paroxysm of a dying breed.  For awhile, society becomes more polarized and extreme. Then, at some point in the future, a new generation ushers in a new paradigm for society and the fundamentalist of today becomes extremely rare.

A different phenomenon is occurring in the Muslim world, but that is because fundamentalism has a much larger market share.  In the US, I don't think they have the critical mass necessary to become the majority. Or at least I hope they don't.

[Icarus]

EN I fear that the fundies do have enough clout to become the critical mass. That scares the bejesus outta me. (pardon the feeble humor). Take a look at the hot new Mississippi legislation that made it impossible for abortion to occur in that state. They are not the only ones who are making up that stuff. There is Nebraska, Alabama, Louisianna, South Carolina, Texas and some more places that are flirting with that sort of legislation.

Never mind that the legislation amounnts to a state of being that is unconstitutional. I have heard suggestions that the crazies want constitutionality issues to be brought before the supreme court. Each of the cases will provide the opportunity to overturn Roe vs Wade if the defendants are sufficiently persuasive. That's scary and pretty damned clever of the nut case trogdolytes who are behind all this.

[OldGit]

It's scary.  It's starting to creep in here, though not quickly yet.

[markmcdaniel]

EN I fear that the fundies do have enough clout to become the critical mass. That scares the bejesus outta me. (pardon the feeble humor). Take a look at the hot new Mississippi legislation that made it impossible for abortion to occur in that state. They are not the only ones who are making up that stuff. There is Nebraska, Alabama, Louisianna, South Carolina, Texas and some more places that are flirting with that sort of legislation.

Never mind that the legislation amounnts to a state of being that is unconstitutional. I have heard suggestions that the crazies want constitutionality issues to be brought before the supreme court. Each of the cases will provide the opportunity to overturn Roe vs Wade if the defendants are sufficiently persuasive. That's scary and pretty damned clever of the nut case trogdolytes who are behind all this.

Agreed it is scary. However EN may be right that in some ways it resembles a rear guard. This only makes them more dangerous. In part this is because as the liberal and moderate members drop away this leaves the fundies to frame the theistic agenda and the fact that they tend to vote as a block gives them power. It is important that we do not let them frame the agenda with out effective opposition.

[fester30]

Recusant is right that overall America is becoming less religious.  Fewer people believe in a higher power, fewer people associate with a church, fewer church members actually attend church, etc, than they did before.  Recusant is also right that the fundies are screaming louder, and finding a platform in the Republican party and Fox News (Huckabee show?  Really?).  

I agree with EN that it's typical backlash, or reactionary.  When the slaves were freed, Southern whites organized into groups that eventually became the KKK.  Reactionary.  During the last two economic depressions, 1870s and 1930s, immigration laws were tightened as a reaction to keep foreigners out of the workplace, and racial tensions against certain ethnic groups, especially Asians, were higher.  The civil rights movement, and the Civil Rights Act, led to a backlash of increased membership in discriminatory groups, as well as the mass exodus of Southern Democrats to the Republican party.  

First black president came along, and many whites ran to fundamentalist churches and the Republican party.  There is an entire town in Arkansas where my wife grew up, that nearly all voted for Clinton, and nearly all were pissed at Bush for 8 years, but suddenly think the world is going to end unless we get Obama out of office.  This town is very well known as a racist town.  Several of the Southern Baptist churches in town that were really in trouble with finances and membership before Obama took office are finding their pews full every Sunday and, with the economic recession taking place, are the only entities actually building anything in town, as they add to their churches with school buildings and gymnasiums.  I think it's just a reaction.  Most of these people always identitfied as Christians, they're just going to church again, and in the churches where the preachers are political against the president.

Additional:  I think it Was Chris Rock that was comparing the Tea Party to his kids.  He said his kids make the most noise right before bed time.  The Tea Party is a collection of people making the most noise as we attempt to set aside racial inequality.

[technolud]

Many people hate/fear change.  They don't necessarily like the way things are, but its still better then changing into something unknown.  Look back at the threads about "why religion", many references to people using religion as a tool to eliminate the "unknown".

Layer on top of that the "hooray for our side" point of view.  Fear of change combines with tribalism and bingo, the tea party is birthed.

The political/social pedulum swings back and forth.  Maybe EN is right and the movement loses momentum naturally.  Maybe Icarus is closer to the mark and its still accelerating.  Either way anything which can be done to diffuse the movement has gotta help.

Currently I am exposed to a fair number of highschool and collage age kids (due to my kids) and feel pretty hopeful about their outlooks.  Internet/public school/university is having a positive effect on their critical reasoning skills.