I'll Say This Much About Jesus...

[Sweetdeath]

My mother told me that during one of her church services the preacher had a stroke. They called an ambulance too though I don't doubt the feverish praying sessions came soon afterward.

That's what i figured.

[Stevil]

My mother told me that during one of her church services the preacher had a stroke. They called an ambulance too though I don't doubt the feverish praying sessions came soon afterward.

That's what i figured.

So they first put their faith in medical science, then when there is nothing more that they can do, they then put their faith into the kingdom of god.
Speaks volumes doesn't it?

[AnimatedDirt]

My mother told me that during one of her church services the preacher had a stroke. They called an ambulance too though I don't doubt the feverish praying sessions came soon afterward.

That's what i figured.

So they first put their faith in medical science, then when there is nothing more that they can do, they then put their faith into the kingdom of god.
Speaks volumes doesn't it?

Seems like the logical thing to do...don't you think?

Either we ( religious types ) are deluded for praying first and then dialing 911 or we're deluded for dialing 911 and then praying.

Of course we "put our faith in medical science".  Whom else but God created us with intelligence?  If there is no "911" to call upon, then prayer is the only thing left other than our own knowledge of what to do in an emergency.

The Church I belong to is quite interested in the medical sciences.

[Crow]

Either we ( religious types ) are deluded for praying first and then dialing 911 or we're deluded for dialing 911 and then praying.

Yup atheist usually view praying as pretty delusional.

[AnimatedDirt]

Either we ( religious types ) are deluded for praying first and then dialing 911 or we're deluded for dialing 911 and then praying.

Yup atheist usually view praying as pretty delusional.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm sure even atheists have thoughts of hope/prayer that cross the mind.  That's not to say atheists "pray".

[Stevil]

Please correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm sure even atheists have thoughts of hope/prayer that cross the mind.  That's not to say atheists "pray".

Hope is different to prayer isn't it.

I hope it is sunny on my wedding day is different from I am praying for sun on my wedding day.
Hope implies desire, the other implies making a wish and changing the course of the future

[Stevil]

Either we ( religious types ) are deluded for praying first and then dialing 911 or we're deluded for dialing 911 and then praying.

You've already had a recent argument about putting words in people's mouths right?

[DeterminedJuliet]

Either we ( religious types ) are deluded for praying first and then dialing 911 or we're deluded for dialing 911 and then praying.

Yup atheist usually view praying as pretty delusional.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm sure even atheists have thoughts of hope/prayer that cross the mind.

Hope and prayer are two different things entirely. Thoughts of hope, maybe (though, I try to go more for "realistic" than "hopeful"). Prayer? Nope.

[En_Route]

Either we ( religious types ) are deluded for praying first and then dialing 911 or we're deluded for dialing 911 and then praying.

Yup atheist usually view praying as pretty delusional.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...but I'm sure even atheists have thoughts of hope/prayer that cross the mind.  That's not to say atheists "pray".

So who would they pray to?

[AnimatedDirt]

Hope is different to prayer isn't it.

I hope it is sunny on my wedding day is different from I am praying for sun on my wedding day.
I implies desire, the other implies making a wish and changing the course of the future

While it is not my intention to equate the two, making desire known or thinking it and wishing for a change could be the same thing.  The difference being one is a solely internal thought and the other is an internal prayer TOO God.  Both are looking for the same preferred outcome.

Again...not that the atheist prays.

You've already had a recent argument about putting words in people's mouths right?

I put words in someone's mouth here?  If I did, please show me how exactly I did that.   I was having a thought that I'm open to being wrong about. 

Hope and prayer are two different things entirely. Thoughts of hope, maybe (though, I try to go more for "realistic" than "hopeful"). Prayer? Nope.

I would more disagree, but that may be because of my biased position.  To me it seems to hope is much like praying.  One can say they pray for rain and mean they hope for rain and likewise one can hope for rain and mean they pray for rain.  If it's too offensive it's ok.  I'm not trying to start anything.

Again, I'm not married to this thought, I'm just having a difference of opinion where one person thought it was comedic that the Christian's put their "faith" in medicine before putting their faith in God.  It's logical to seek medical care. 

So who would they pray to?

Nothing.

When a person makes a statement of; "I hope it is sunny on my wedding day." to whom is that directed to?  Is rain or stormy weather just as welcome than a sunny day?  It seems to me there is a preference.

I don't know, I'm just thinking outloud and don't really care too much either way.  I just thought it was funny that according to the atheist, if he/she calls 911 first then prays in hope of something or prays first hoping God will answer immediately and then calls 911...either way "it speaks volumes."

I hope and pray I didn't put words in anyone's mouth.

[Stevil]

While it is not my intention to equate the two, making desire known or thinking it and wishing for a change could be the same thing.  The difference being one is a solely internal thought and the other is an internal prayer TOO God.  Both are looking for the same preferred outcome.

Again...not that the atheist prays.

With hope, one does not have an expectation of changing the future.

I put words in someone's mouth here?  If I did, please show me how exactly I did that.   I was having a thought that I'm open to being wrong about. 

Either we ( religious types ) are deluded for praying first and then dialing 911 or we're deluded for dialing 911 and then praying.

When did I ever say you were deluded?

[AnimatedDirt]

When did I ever say you were deluded?

You haven't that I know of.  I stand corrected.

So what did you mean exactly by, "Speaks volumes doesn't it?"

So they first put their faith in medical science, then when there is nothing more that they can do, they then put their faith into the kingdom of god.
Speaks volumes doesn't it?

If it doesn't imply delusion or something of that nature, what does it mean?   ( For future reference )

[En_Route]

Nothing.

When a person makes a statement of; "I hope it is sunny on my wedding day." to whom is that directed to?  Is rain or stormy weather just as welcome than a sunny day?  It seems to me there is a preference.

I agree I am expressing a preference. But that's it. It's not asking anybody to change or influence matters to accommodate my preferences.

[DeterminedJuliet]

Nothing.

When a person makes a statement of; "I hope it is sunny on my wedding day." to whom is that directed to?  Is rain or stormy weather just as welcome than a sunny day?  It seems to me there is a preference.

I agree I am expressing a preference. But that's it. It's not asking anybody to change or influence matters to accommodate my preferences.

Yep, this is my take on it. Prayer requires something that is prayed to. Otherwise it's just thinking/musing/wishing, etc.
Edit: Pretty much every definition of prayer that I can find online makes reference to an object of prayer.

[Stevil]

You haven't that I know of.  I stand corrected.

So what did you mean exactly by, "Speaks volumes doesn't it?"

That even the believers first look to material answers when expediency is required.
It's like that saying that there are no atheists in foxholes. I would say there aren't many theists in the foxholes.
When push comes to shove we look to ourselves and our actions for survival, praying to gods is a luxury that only those with time to spare can choose to do.
Seeking the kingdom of god does not come first. Survival comes first.

So they first put their faith in medical science, then when there is nothing more that they can do, they then put their faith into the kingdom of god.
Speaks volumes doesn't it?

If it doesn't imply delusion or something of that nature, what does it mean?   ( For future reference )

It means people first seek to survive via material means. Our reality is different to the stories of the bible, we don't seek Jesus and then poof our loved ones are cured. Christians know (no delusion here) this to be true. They have proven that they know this to be true. They seek god's help only when time allows, when there is nothing more "material" that they can do.