I Have Something Good to Say about Religion

[En_Route]

Creativity will find an outlet. Inspiration is variable and personal.

<3 This and Pudding's post.



I don't find the 'art' of religion particularly nice. I agree that you do need to think about the fact a lot of these artists were pressured and sometimes forced to do this as well. As for the 'i am nothing but a lowly human..." yeah-- that is a lame way of thinking.

Art is suppose to be beautiful and pure from the heart. Whatever the art is-- it can't be beautiful if done for greed and ignorance.




Like i said, i only like the myth. Key words. Like my love for the Greek myth stories, and of course Shinto.

I would imagine most Christian art was created by believers. Non- believers were in pretty short supply for most of history after all. However mistaken Christianity may be, that does not prevent great art being produced in its name.

[Ali]

If people are credulous enough to fall for religion, taking it away won't turn them into rational, enlightened beings imbued with love and compassion for their fellow man.

Sadly probably true.

[Recusant]

I think it's as facile to attribute . . .

Well said, and I agree, though I think Steven Weinberg also had a valid point when he said, "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

[Firebird]

Ye OK some great art is of a religious nature but...

The black gospel singers who started singing about my baby instead of my god were pressured not to give into the devil's music.

Artists created great work under patronage, the rich churches or aristocracy contracted for godly stuff.

Pressure has existed to force artistic expression into religious subjects, if not we may have had more great secular works.  Caravaggio was mentioned, when I think of him I think of very human works not angels.

Art can be used to portray humans as lowly and gods sublime, I don't think that is very healthy.  It is a kind of propaganda, the commoners can't read, give 'em stained glass windows and buildings to make them feel small and subservient.

Interesting, I had not heard about the gospel singers being pressured that way. I'd be curious to read more. But good point about work being created under patronage. A lot of the religious art was created because the church paid for them. En_Route's point about there being fewer non-believers is valid, but it would be interested to know (probably impossible to find out) how many of the great religious artists of that time actually believed in what they were creating.

[OldGit]

South door of Kilpeck, Herefordshire.  Dated 1135-ish.  Supremely beautiful.



The West wall of Deerhurst, Gloucestershire.  Dates to well before 800.  The arches of the side-aisles were put in around 1300.

The incredible sense of sheer age weighs down on you in these places.

[En_Route]

I think it's as facile to attribute . . .

Well said, and I agree, though I think Steven Weinberg also had a valid point when he said, "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

Leaving aside the usual and well- trodden arguments about what does or does not constitute evil, and accepting that there are certain acts from which at the very least nearly everyone would recoil from and would wish not to have happened, I can't see why religion is said to be the only form of brainwashing that can lead
people to commit such acts. I  think racism is not necessarily derivative from religion, and indeed may run counter to it in some cases, but it involves objectifying and dehumanising a section of humanity so as to justify discriminating against them and mistreating them.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

We are inspired and motivated to create by ideas, and the higher the idea, the higher the potential for inspiration and motivation.  Whether true or not, it's hard to get "higher" than the idea of God, an almighty, perfect creator, especially if one finds in that idea hope and solace and personal salvation. It represents perfection at every level. So it should not surprise us that belief in God has inspired great art, music, and architecture. It represents the human mind reaching for the loftiest ideal, for the perfect forms that are unseen but manifest themselves (albeit imperfectly) in human achievements. 

[Recusant]

Leaving aside the usual and well- trodden arguments about what does or does not constitute evil, and accepting that there are certain acts from which at the very least nearly everyone would recoil from and would wish not to have happened, I can't see why religion is said to be the only form of brainwashing that can lead
people to commit such acts. I  think racism is not necessarily derivative from religion, and indeed may run counter to it in some cases, but it involves objectifying and dehumanising a section of humanity so as to justify discriminating against them and mistreating them.

Indeed Weinberg's quip is too simplistic, even if it describes an extant phenomenon. No person is wholly good or evil, but I cannot see any reason to describe a racist (especially one who acts on their racism) as "good."

Anyway, we seem to be heading off topic with this line of discussion. I just meant to agree with your post, while adding some (simplistic) nuance.

[Sandra Craft]

South door of Kilpeck, Herefordshire.  Dated 1135-ish.  Supremely beautiful.

I think you've put that up before, in the photo thread, and it took my breath away then.  One of the loveliest bits of architecture I've ever seen.

This is inside Wayfarer's Chapel at Palos Verdes Penisula in CA; it was designed by Frank Lloyd Wright for the Swedenborgians and built, I believe, by Wright's son.  I don't know if it's worth noting that Wright seems to have been at most a pantheist, and most likely agnostic or ignostic. 



And this is the outside view:



This one is the altar at San Juan Capistrano Mission.  A bit ornate for my taste, but it's the oldest Catholic altar still in use in California, possibly the US.  The King of Spain sent it over about 500 years ago.

[Sweetdeath]

I often find 'church art' to be too much...

I live nearish Saint Patrick's cathedral. It's insane all the candles by the statues and weird paintings of jeebus..

i wouldnt call it art.

[OldGit]

I like the chapel, BCE.

I agree with Sweetdeath: Catholic and Orthodox churches often go way OTT.

How about this Quaker meeting-house at Almley, Herefordshire?  It's not very old - about Shakespeare's time - but there can be great beauty in simplicity.

[Sweetdeath]

Not too shabby.
I suppose I don't like the pathetic energy i feel when i go near a church. People feeling so much hope in the presence of 'god.'

[Crow]

That could be the interior of any tudor house.

[Sandra Craft]

How about this Quaker meeting-house at Almley, Herefordshire?  It's not very old - about Shakespeare's time - but there can be great beauty in simplicity.

I agree about simplicty -- that is my preference -- but that meeting house needs a few touch ups, and the pendant light is all wrong for the space.  This is the result of having watched way too many home design shows.

[Crow]

Could pretty much go on for hours and hours and hours showing good art that is related to religion, I just dislike how its always associated with the catholic art of the Renascence period, there is so much more interesting stuff that people just forget about. I have just included some of the most obvious pieces of architecture.








as well as art that doesn't celebrate religion



and then there are those that explore the relationship between science and religion.