Justified killing or murder?

[Ali]

I would say that the different between rape and other more physical injuries (like falling off a merry-go-round or whatever) is that, generally speaking, the emotional damage is far greater than the physical damage.  I mean sure, depending on the brutality involved, the physical damage can be severe too.  But I would say that the physical damage heals more quickly than the emotional damage.  Emotionally, it's hard to feel safe again after a rape.  Having your father do very little (other than talking to the rapist or calling the cops) would reinforce that feeling of not being safe; heck, your own father will stand by and watch while someone rapes you.  If he won't fight to help you, probably literally no one else in the world would either.  That's what it would feel like, I think.  Maybe like you're not worth saving too.  It's just...people who are trying to argue that it would be less traumatic for the daughter than watching the rapist get a knife to the throat or whatever, I think they're wrong.  Really, really, really wrong.

[Stevil]

It's just...people who are trying to argue that it would be less traumatic for the daughter than watching the rapist get a knife to the throat or whatever, I think they're wrong.  Really, really, really wrong.

If I got to choose a parent or a jury in a self defence case, I know who I would choose.

[Ali]

Haha Stevil, are you saying that I'm biased in favor of the defendant?  Probably.   

[Firebird]

Would you convict that parent? Throw them in prison?

Depends.

Depends on what?

[DeterminedJuliet]

Let me construct another hypothetical from your example:

A kid, who is playing on carousel, falls off and is still on the ground with some blood gushing here and there. A parent runs over and picks the kid up, unwittingly aggravating a neck injury. Kid ends up a quad.

It's not a very medically sound example, but it will do for the purpose. The point is, and this is a personal observation, that thinking before acting generally yields more favourable results than just acting.

I don't disagree necessarily, I'm not even really arguing that he SHOULD have done A or B, I've just worked a job in which emergency situations came up pretty frequently (the vet clinic - we got a lot of hit-by-cars, which is about as emergency as you can get for a living creature) and I've seen time and time again that people don't get a chance to "think" in these circumstances. It can take years of training to condition a proper response to an emergency or crisis situation. Unless you have that training, your average Joe is highly unpredictable.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

.people who are trying to argue that it would be less traumatic for the daughter than watching the rapist get a knife to the throat or whatever, I think they're wrong.  Really, really, really wrong.

Especially in view of the fact that she was 5 years old. We are talking some very, very serious damage, both physical and emotional, that would have been done.  She might not have survived it, and certainly would have been scarred for life if she had.

[Stevil]

Haha Stevil, are you saying that I'm biased in favor of the defendant?  Probably.   

No,

I'm saying I'd rather have a parent that would lay their life on the line for me, without hesitation rather than one that is worried about doing the "right" thing.

With regards to jury, I'd rather one that takes into account human emotions in a situation, and the responsibility of a parent to protect their dependants.

[Asmodean]

Depends on what?

Did the parent see the kid fall and hit his head/nearly snap his neck? If yes and if they knew nothing of first aid, then I would call picking the kid up negligent. There are a multitude of such factors, which are very time-consuming to list without a properly constructed (or a real) scenario.

[Stevil]

Did the parent see the kid fall and hit his head/nearly snap his neck? If yes and if they knew nothing of first aid, then I would call picking the kid up negligent. There are a multitude of such factors, which are very time-consuming to list without a properly constructed (or a real) scenario.

The parent will spend the rest of their life and a great deal of money caring for this child. Probably racked with guilt as well.
How would criminal justice benefit society here?

[Asmodean]

By performing its function properly. In most cases, even I would not convict a parent after such an event, but I would want more reason than that it was a once in a lifetime occurence for that.

[Crow]

I  personally have no idea what natural justice is

Just world hypothesis. There is this but personally I think its a load of bollocks.

[Sandra Craft]

But I would say that the physical damage heals more quickly than the emotional damage.  Emotionally, it's hard to feel safe again after a rape.  Having your father do very little (other than talking to the rapist or calling the cops) would reinforce that feeling of not being safe; heck, your own father will stand by and watch while someone rapes you.  If he won't fight to help you, probably literally no one else in the world would either.  That's what it would feel like, I think.  Maybe like you're not worth saving too.  It's just...people who are trying to argue that it would be less traumatic for the daughter than watching the rapist get a knife to the throat or whatever, I think they're wrong.  Really, really, really wrong.

I agree with this.  There was never any way this experience was not going to be damaging for the daughter, but having her father turn up and not take immediate action to rescue her might have been seen as a betrayal on the level of the parent excusing or denying the rape.  And that, I promise you, is worse than the actual rape.  The emotional fallout from rape the victim can recover from, tho it's difficult and takes a long time, but recovery from a betrayal -- probably not going to happen.

And I think there are some situations in which thinking before acting is just not possible, and this was one of them.  A man found his child being raped, he saw red and attacked.  It's to his credit that after his child was safe and he came back to his senses, he tried to get help for the other man.  A lot of people would have done the first, but not many of us would have done the second.  I don't think situations like this should be shrugged off by the law, but there are a lot of extinuating circumstances here that make it unreasonable to prosecute.

[Asmodean]

A lot of people would have done the first, but not many of us would have done the second.

...And I would toss each one of those assholes who failed to do the second in jail for a very long time.

[Sandra Craft]

A lot of people would have done the first, but not many of us would have done the second.

...And I would toss each one of those assholes who failed to do the second in jail for a very long time.

And we would deserve it, but still.

[Asmodean]

A lot of people would have done the first, but not many of us would have done the second.

...And I would toss each one of those assholes who failed to do the second in jail for a very long time.

And we would deserve it, but still.

Indeed. Deserving, but... is still deserving.