Terrorist attack in Oslo

[Tank]

I wasn't being snarky. I was just jokingly pointing out that he was being a bit long winded in his answer. He doesn't seem to have a problem and I think he read my tone correctly, whereas you've got the wrong end of the stick. No one is being snarky.

You should stick a winky on the end  if you're making a tongue-in-cheek comment. The other thing to remember is that I am not necessarily responding just to a post but an issue in general and not necesserily to just one person. Thus while to you I may appear long winded it won't be so to others. Giving cryptic one liners is not a good way to encourage discussion and debate. So while it's fine to reply like that if it's your style it's not an encouraging style that promotes engaugement. If everyboby replied cryptically then the forum would die a sudden death.

[Tank]

Norway's Anders Behring Breivik in open court hearing

The man who confessed to killing 77 people in Norway in July has made his first public appearance in court.

Anders Behring Breivik, dressed in a dark suit, appeared in court in Oslo before dozens of reporters and members of the public.

The 32-year-old right-wing extremist has been in custody since the 22 July attacks in Oslo and at a youth camp on the island of Utoeya.

Previous hearings on his continued detention have been held in private...

...Mr Breivik has admitted to the July killings but denies criminal responsibility - saying the massacre was "necessary" to save Norway and Europe from Muslims and multiculturalism...

Nutters come in all shapes and sizes.

[Buddy]

That is just so sad. I remember being so worried for the families of the kids at the camp. I even had a friend who was thinking about going, but couldn't due to money issues.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

I read a report that the judge found that he was not insane.  So, here is a sane person who, because of his particular world view, finds that it was justified to kill dozens of innocent people.  World views are important - they provide the matrix from which we interpret the world.  You can be sane and even generally non-evil as a person, and still come to horrendous conclusions and perform evil acts, all based on your world view.

[Too Few Lions]

Nutters come in all shapes and sizes.

He was a far-right Christian extremist, I'd call anyone with that worldview a nutter!

I think his father summed it up nicely when he said ABB should have just shot himself, rather than killing anyone else.

[xSilverPhinx]

Ugh, Anders, I hate that name.

Maybe he should try saying that he had multiple personality disorder, it seems to be a favorite. Or else that no, actually free will doesn't exist. But it does. Wait, no it doesn't, at least when it's convenient...

He says it's necesary, who does he think he is? God?

[OldGit]

He wants to go to court in a self-designed uniform as a 'military commander in the Norwegian resistance movement and Knights Templar Norway'.  And they claim he's not mad?

[Ecurb Noselrub]

And they claim he's not mad?

"Mad" and "legally insane" are two different concepts.  Apples & oranges.  There are lots of "mad" people out there who are nontheless legally sane and capable of standing trial to answer for their actions.  This guy knew exactly what he was doing and why.  He is sane, which is a scary thought.

[xSilverPhinx]

And they claim he's not mad?

"Mad" and "legally insane" are two different concepts.  Apples & oranges.  There are lots of "mad" people out there who are nontheless legally sane and capable of standing trial to answer for their actions.  This guy knew exactly what he was doing and why.  He is sane, which is a scary thought.

Does the fact that he planned for it also mean that he's legally sane?

[Tank]

And they claim he's not mad?

"Mad" and "legally insane" are two different concepts.  Apples & oranges.  There are lots of "mad" people out there who are nonetheless legally sane and capable of standing trial to answer for their actions.  This guy knew exactly what he was doing and why.  He is sane, which is a scary thought.

I think he is sane in the sense that he created a logical plan and executed it ruthlessly. The question is, does his total lack of empathy for his fellow humans also constitute a type of insanity, and if so would it be reasonable to use this as a defence? To me the point is moot as there is no death penalty in Norway, he's never going to be let out into the community again. The issue is whether he is kept in a hospital or prison for the rest of his life.

[Norfolk And Chance]

What I can't understand is how he thinks murdering his own people will stop the percieved Islamic invasion? Wasn't he taking it out on the wrong guys?

[Tank]

What I can't understand is how he thinks murdering his own people will stop the percieved Islamic invasion? Wasn't he taking it out on the wrong guys?

He attacked the liberal political left. Those he sees as the root of the problem letting Muslims into Norway in the first place. He didn't do this randomly, he targeted the next generation of left wing liberal politicians.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

And they claim he's not mad?

"Mad" and "legally insane" are two different concepts.  Apples & oranges.  There are lots of "mad" people out there who are nontheless legally sane and capable of standing trial to answer for their actions.  This guy knew exactly what he was doing and why.  He is sane, which is a scary thought.

Does the fact that he planned for it also mean that he's legally sane?

I think that contributes to the concept.  He knew exactly what he was doing.  An insane person would not be able to concoct and carry out such a plan. 

[Ecurb Noselrub]

I think he is sane in the sense that he created a logical plan and executed it ruthlessly. The question is, does his total lack of empathy for his fellow humans also constitute a type of insanity, and if so would it be reasonable to use this as a defence?

The total lack of emphathy may mean that he is a psychopath (anti-social personality disorder), but that is not insanity. A certain percentage of the population are psychopathic, but can be quite functional and even intelligent in normal situations.  There are probably psychopaths who are also CEO's. They are just ruthless people - they are wired that way.  Note that "psychopathic" does not mean "psychotic", which IS a form of insanity. 

[Ecurb Noselrub]

He attacked the liberal political left. Those he sees as the root of the problem letting Muslims into Norway in the first place. He didn't do this randomly, he targeted the next generation of left wing liberal politicians.

From a purely detached point of view, his plan was pretty bright. It would be comparable to someone killing all the students at West Point in order to deliver a blow to the future USA officer corps.  It's all a matter of one's world view - whom does one understand one's enemies to be.  He determined who his enemies were and what the source of the problem was, and devised a plan to stop it. We don't share his world view about the method he used or even about the problem itself, but one tribe killing another tribe is as human as it comes. A few hundred years ago this guy would have been a hero.  He probably IS a hero to a certain segment of Western civilization.  This is a form of tribalism that is deeply ingrained in us, and a few generations of liberal enlightenment is not going to eliminate this impulse from the human psyche.