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How would you define atheism to a theist?

SidewalkCynic

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2019, 04:40:18 PM »
! ! ! HOLY SHIT ! ! !

Look what I found
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The French Revolution can be described as the first period where atheism became implemented politically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

End of second paragraph - no citation, but an article,"Dechristianization of France," provides some amount of justification for the claim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dechristianization_of_France_during_the_French_Revolution

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The dechristianization of France during the French Revolution is a conventional description of the results of a number of separate policies conducted by various governments of France between the start of the French Revolution in 1789 and the Concordat of 1801, forming the basis of the later and less radical laïcité policies. The goal of the campaign between 1793 and 1794 ranged from the public reclamation of the massive amounts of land, power, and money held by the Catholic Church in France to the termination of Catholic religious practice and of the religion itself.[1][2][3] There has been much scholarly debate over whether the movement was popularly motivated.[1]

The French Revolution initially began with attacks on church corruption and the wealth of the higher clergy, an action with which even many Christians could identify, since the Roman Catholic church held a dominant role in pre-revolutionary France. During a two-year period known as the Reign of Terror, the episodes of anti-clericalism grew more violent than any in modern European history. The new revolutionary authorities suppressed the church; abolished the Catholic monarchy; nationalized church property; exiled 30,000 priests and killed hundreds more.[4] In October 1793 the Christian calendar was replaced with one reckoning from the date of the Revolution, and Festivals of Liberty, Reason and the Supreme Being were scheduled. New forms of moral religion emerged, including the deistic Cult of the Supreme Being and the atheistic Cult of Reason,[5] with the revolutionary government briefly mandating observance of the former in April 1794.[6][7][8][9][10]
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The Cult of Reason (French: Culte de la Raison)[note 1] was France's first established state-sponsored atheistic religion, intended as a replacement for Roman Catholicism during the French Revolution. It also rivaled Robespierre's Cult of the Supreme Being.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Reason[1][2][3][4]
If there were a god, then it would have revealed itself to me. There has never been anything more important in the history of Mankind than what I am delivering - scientific collation theory for the organization of technology.

Sandra Craft

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2019, 07:23:16 PM »
This is common knowledge, and I don't see where it helps your point.  Religion has been repeatedly politicized thru out history but that doesn't make religion inherently political either.
Sandy

  

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SidewalkCynic

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2019, 08:10:44 PM »
This is common knowledge, and I don't see where it helps your point.
I don't think it is that common. I have never read of atheists referring to the French Revolution and the Cult of Reason as a starting point of modern atheism. It helps my point in that it demonstrates that atheism is a doctrine that opposes theist based doctrine for public policy - the French Revolutionaries under the revelation of there being no god did what they thought was proper to eliminate the theists hold of the government powers.

Religion has been repeatedly politicized thru out history but that doesn't make religion inherently political either.

What is the difference between religion and political partisanship?

The leaders from either category seem to be claiming to have the moral high ground for organizing community. If you were to accept religions as political parties then it would be easier to defeat the "magic," with reason in the course of legislation litigation. As it is, you unwittingly provide them shelter under the guise of church and state separation.
If there were a god, then it would have revealed itself to me. There has never been anything more important in the history of Mankind than what I am delivering - scientific collation theory for the organization of technology.

Bluenose

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2019, 10:09:32 PM »
There have been atheists throughout history from ancient times, what a group of alleged atheists did during the French Revolution over 200  years ago is entirely beside the point. It has no bearing on atheism today.

SidewalkCynic you are seeking to redefine words to suit your specious argument. When called out, you double down. I am going to revert to my normal action when faced with such trollish behaviour. I don't feed the trolls. Bye, I'm disengaging.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 09:03:44 AM by Bluenose »
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SidewalkCynic

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2019, 03:04:33 PM »
SidewalkCynic you are seeking to redefine words to suit your specious argument.
My argument is valid and sound. Your counter-argument is based on dogma - inadequately reasoned definitions from bygone eras of sophistication dominated by appeasing the Christian world.

When called out, you double down.
Yes, because I am right and I want to make sure everyone knows that I figured it out; and that, except for me, contemporary atheists are guilty of harboring dogma, because they have failed to critically analyse the semantics. And when faced with the sound reasoning they revert to guard their dogma in much the same way that the Church guards its dogma.

Eventually, I publish in the mainstream, and one of the contemporary atheist respected leaders recognizes the sound reasoning and issues a complimentary opinion that sways the larger audience. Who will that person be?

I am going to revert to my normal action when faced with such trollish behaviour. I don't feed the trolls. Bye, I'm disengaging.
The mere fact that this discussion was commenced is sufficient evidence that there are some problems atheists have when defining atheism. Not to mention the silly relative degrees of atheism that have been defined: strong atheism, weak atheism, militant atheism, etc.
If there were a god, then it would have revealed itself to me. There has never been anything more important in the history of Mankind than what I am delivering - scientific collation theory for the organization of technology.

Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2019, 08:15:20 PM »
I regularly get theists telling me what atheism is. This is my most recent attempt at an explaination.

"Atheism is the rational deduction that the lack of evidence to support the conjecture that gods exist is sufficient to support a world view that gods do not exist."

Thoughts?

I'd start with the old "I have a jar of jelly beans, with either an even number or odd number of jelly beans in it... without opening the jar and counting them do you think the jar contains an even or odd amount?"

Unless someone can leap that hurdle, there's not much point going farther.

If they answer something like "I'd have no way of deciding."

I'd say "I have no way of deciding if any of the gods are real".

Although the antitheist in me might add that since I know jelly beans are real things and are known to exist, I know that the question could actually be answered, even if I personally never find out what the answer is. But until a being with "omni-abilities" can be shown to be possible or capable of existing there's not much point in even asking if there are any.
"If we are to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard

Randy

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2020, 07:32:26 PM »
I'm bumping an old thread.

I get asked this on Quora a lot and I try to dumb it down as much as possible. So I simply reply, "An atheist does not believe in any gods or goddesses." I try to get the female of the non-existent species credit too.

Note that I hate the word "believe" and avoid it if I can. This can sometimes fodder the religious point that I believe in something. I'd rather substitute "confident". It's stronger. I'd rewrite the phrase, "An atheist is confident that there are no gods or goddesses." Silver might be a goddess but then I would be confident she didn't exist and it just messes up my day. :lol:
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson

Tank

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2020, 07:35:22 PM »
My common response too 'You believe in evolution!' is 'Only an idiot believes in evolution; I understand it, which is very different.'
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2020, 08:24:12 PM »
I regularly get theists telling me what atheism is. This is my most recent attempt at an explaination.

"Atheism is the rational deduction that the lack of evidence to support the conjecture that gods exist is sufficient to support a world view that gods do not exist."

Thoughts?
Thoughts: God = force. Any thing or anyone that forces, pushes, causes, applies power to/over, motivates, etc. In physics God is the laws of physics. God = what all things are subject to. Physics, what material is subject to. Psychology, (the elements of "person", Mental - what a person is subject to. Powers of the "self".

To stay with the OP. From my perspective. Atheist. A person that doesn't hold that the universe is ruled by a superhuman entity, and that no such personage exists. 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 03:28:41 AM by Old Seer »
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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2020, 08:27:07 PM »
Atheism is the only true path to enlightenment. If you don't agree, I will have to kill you.
Agree, but no need for the killing :-)
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Randy

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2020, 12:55:13 AM »
Atheism is the only true path to enlightenment. If you don't agree, I will have to kill you.
Agree, but no need for the killing :-)

Aw, come on! I live in Georgia where everyone has 2.5 guns. I wanted to try the .5 guns out on someone. Darn, I guess I'll have to go into the backyard and shoot at a target. ;D

P.S. I don't own a gun and there are none in the house. If you want to talk about guns, talk to my brother who has more than a military squad and maybe a grenade or two but I've never seen them.
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson

Dark Lightning

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2020, 02:34:05 AM »
Atheism is the only true path to enlightenment. If you don't agree, I will have to kill you.
Agree, but no need for the killing :-)

Aw, come on! I live in Georgia where everyone has 2.5 guns. I wanted to try the .5 guns out on someone. Darn, I guess I'll have to go into the backyard and shoot at a target. ;D

P.S. I don't own a gun and there are none in the house. If you want to talk about guns, talk to my brother who has more than a military squad and maybe a grenade or two but I've never seen them.

I had a pistol and a rifle up until I inherited my FiL's stuff. Gained a couple of fire arms which spend all their time languishing in a locked safe with the rest. All I have ever "killed" and ever expect to kill with them is paper. I have other means of protection in my home which don't involve fire arms and won't be discussed on an open forum.

BoT, I guess my best response to a theist would be to ask if they believe in the Greek or Norse or Hindu, etc., gods. Of course, they will say no. Then I will tell them that I believe in one less god than they do.

ETA- one of my uncles was career military. He visited us one time and brought a practice grenade, which had the weight of a real grenade but no explosives in it. He pulled the pin and set the thing on the dining room table. Everybody just sat there looking at it, and I just couldn't help myself. Nobody was looking at me, so I turned around and slapped the back door out of the house with the flat of my hand. Everybody jumped, big time! :lol: Did I ever say that I was quite the little shit, in my youth? Well, I was.
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Recusant

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2020, 02:57:40 AM »
I'm bumping an old thread.

I get asked this on Quora a lot and I try to dumb it down as much as possible. So I simply reply, "An atheist does not believe in any gods or goddesses." I try to get the female of the non-existent species credit too.

Note that I hate the word "believe" and avoid it if I can. This can sometimes fodder the religious point that I believe in something. I'd rather substitute "confident". It's stronger. I'd rewrite the phrase, "An atheist is confident that there are no gods or goddesses." Silver might be a goddess but then I would be confident she didn't exist and it just messes up my day. :lol:

I think your first formulation is fine, but then I don't hate the word believe:)  If it didn't exist we'd have to invent it, describing as it does a fundamental aspect of human existence.

Perhaps I agree with your first because it's nearly identical to my own. Years before gender became as prominent as it is currently, I disposed of the question by using deities rather than gods and goddesses. There are non-gendered deities in some cultures after all, as well as those whose gender is not fixed, like Hermaphroditus, the son of Hermes.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Randy

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2020, 03:32:55 AM »
I'm bumping an old thread.

I get asked this on Quora a lot and I try to dumb it down as much as possible. So I simply reply, "An atheist does not believe in any gods or goddesses." I try to get the female of the non-existent species credit too.

Note that I hate the word "believe" and avoid it if I can. This can sometimes fodder the religious point that I believe in something. I'd rather substitute "confident". It's stronger. I'd rewrite the phrase, "An atheist is confident that there are no gods or goddesses." Silver might be a goddess but then I would be confident she didn't exist and it just messes up my day. :lol:

I think your first formulation is fine, but then I don't hate the word believe:)  If it didn't exist we'd have to invent it, describing as it does a fundamental aspect of human existence.

Perhaps I agree with your first because it's nearly identical to my own. Years before gender became as prominent as it is currently, I disposed of the question by using deities rather than gods and goddesses. There are non-gendered deities in some cultures after all, as well as those whose gender is not fixed, like Hermaphroditus, the son of Hermes.

That shows you how well I know my mythology. I should have guessed that there would be some gender less deities. In the back of my mind I thought that deities are based on humans. I've never known a sexless human so it didn't occur to me.

I've learned something new. Thanks!
"Maybe it's just a bunch of stuff that happens." -- Homer Simpson

Recusant

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Re: How would you define atheism to a theist?
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2020, 04:36:24 AM »
There are Christians who will tell you that their god is neither male nor female, transcending such mere human classifications. I was thinking more of amorphous mystical beings like Chaos in Greek mythology, who brought forth the first primordial supernatural beings. They were more personified than their parent (being considered male and female) but as far as I know, Chaos has no gender in the mythology.

If you care to spend time on it, for more personified gods who are of non-binary gender, a short article:

"Deities of Non-Binary Gender" | Patheos

"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken