politics and religion

[Tank]

Thanks Chris!
I'm new to forums, but honestly, although I have strong opinions, I'm very tolerant of others- believe or not, airline captains have to be fairly accomplished diplomats, as do police officers. That's why the reaction at the other forum caught me so off guard, I had been very respectful of all of the views the others had shared with me, but the instant I went off book...whew! I was going to cut and paste a bit of it here, just to show how quickly and with how little provocation it went south, but I guess after I left they erased all evidence of my existence. I went back as a guest and everything was gone.

I believe liberals have good intentions, in most cases I simply don't think they have the experience necessary to understand the human condition as it applies to much of the world population, particularly that of the...less civilized?..nations, where life is cheaper. Their ideas would often be wonderful, if human nature weren't what it too often is. My comments on the other forum were tamer than this- but they concerned immigration, apparently quite the hot button topic over there. 

Appreciate the welcome, and I look forward to many future arguments.

Cheers!

I think 95% of people have good intentions. It's the mechanisms they perceive as effective to achieve those intentions vary. And variation is good as it provides multiple solutions. Any how at work so need to press on!

[imaginaryfriendless]

I think 95% of people have good intentions. It's the mechanisms they perceive as effective to achieve those intentions vary. And variation is good as it provides multiple solutions. Any how at work so need to press on!

I'm not sure I agree with that figure...after 8 years as a police officer, I'd say a significant number of people's intentions are far less than altruistic. Downright self-serving, actually.

[Tank]

I think 95% of people have good intentions. It's the mechanisms they perceive as effective to achieve those intentions vary. And variation is good as it provides multiple solutions. Any how at work so need to press on!

I'm not sure I agree with that figure...after 8 years as a police officer, I'd say a significant number of people's intentions are far less than altruistic. Downright self-serving, actually.

Self selecting audience.

[Asmodean]

Downright self-serving, actually.

Constitutes good intentions with regard to self, no? 

[imaginaryfriendless]

Constitutes good intentions with regard to self, no? 


Hmm. Yes, that's true...it's not how I took Tank's comment though.

A lot of people think cops have issues because they deal with the dregs of society...that isn't really true. When a shithead acts like a shithead, we're in our comfort zone. When a gangbanger shoots at me, I'm ready for that- mentally, and I hope physically. Basically, everything is in it's place doing it's thing. No problem.

Where cops have problems is when "good" people- not the ones in the shithead category- do awful things. When a sweet grandmother chops her great granddaughter into pieces because her dog is hungry, a woman who raised a large family and never had even a traffic ticket...well, that's what gets to you. The idea that a cop sees a particular segment of society is false- we deal with all segments, and see depravity everywhere. That's when you start doubting...well, everything.

[Dave]

I think 95% of people have good intentions. It's the mechanisms they perceive as effective to achieve those intentions vary. And variation is good as it provides multiple solutions. Any how at work so need to press on!

I'm not sure I agree with that figure...after 8 years as a police officer, I'd say a significant number of people's intentions are far less than altruistic. Downright self-serving, actually.

I believe in helping others if I can and have found others mostly feel the same way. I have fallen a few times, due to medical problems, and there has rarely been a dirth of people wanting to help.

Now, altruism, another story. I am not altruistic, it actually makes me feel good to help others - so I have an internal reward system.

IF, one wonders if there is a link between your gun culture and the concern about "interfering" about another's situation. Not saying one might get shot but, unconciously at least, the possibility that a person is carrying an "aggressive instrument" might imply that the person is aggressive to some. Difficult for one in a non-gun culture to get a handle on the psychology over there. We can only go by the news and documented behaviour - but that is bound to have media or political bias of some sort.

On that basis America looks like a crazy country!

[xSilverPhinx]

Where cops have problems is when "good" people- not the ones in the shithead category- do awful things. When a sweet grandmother chops her great granddaughter into pieces because her dog is hungry, a woman who raised a large family and never had even a traffic ticket...well, that's what gets to you. The idea that a cop sees a particular segment of society is false- we deal with all segments, and see depravity everywhere. That's when you start doubting...well, everything.

Cognitive dissonance can be very uncomfortable.

[imaginaryfriendless]

IF, one wonders if there is a link between your gun culture and the concern about "interfering" about another's situation.

Actually, the cause of our way of thinking is well documented. You aren't too far off the mark, actually, although it has evolved into a much less confrontational system.

Back when the west was being settled, many people came out here because they were fleeing something in the civilized east. Anything and everything- fleeing from the authorities, overbearing families, bad situations, slavery, creditors, spouses, abusers, or just simply crowds- many people felt claustrophobic. So because of these varied reasons, many of which were illegal or embarrassing, it became impolite to inquire into one's background, beyond, at it's base level..."is he a good worker?"

[Dave]

Constitutes good intentions with regard to self, no? 


Hmm. Yes, that's true...it's not how I took Tank's comment though.

A lot of people think cops have issues because they deal with the dregs of society...that isn't really true. When a shithead acts like a shithead, we're in our comfort zone. When a gangbanger shoots at me, I'm ready for that- mentally, and I hope physically. Basically, everything is in it's place doing it's thing. No problem.

Where cops have problems is when "good" people- not the ones in the shithead category- do awful things. When a sweet grandmother chops her great granddaughter into pieces because her dog is hungry, a woman who raised a large family and never had even a traffic ticket...well, that's what gets to you. The idea that a cop sees a particular segment of society is false- we deal with all segments, and see depravity everywhere. That's when you start doubting...well, everything.

Wow! There is a whole load to read between the lines there, IF.

Please don't take offense, this is a world away from my experience of life on this side of the Pond.

To say that you are "-comfortable" with aggressive shitheads sounds bad. But I will read it as, "I know where I am when faced with aggression from an evidently aggressive person, the "rules of engagement" are clear." Fair enough, if someone points a gun at me I would like a gun to point back. Or, perhaps better, a bloody great sheet of boiler plate on wheels, sod the kevlar jacket!

Regarding the dear little granny with the chopper . . . Was she found insane by any chance? There is never any good ROE for such people.

[imaginaryfriendless]

Cognitive dissonance can be very uncomfortable.

Exactly right, SP...when a cat barks....

[imaginaryfriendless]

To say that you are "-comfortable" with aggressive shitheads sounds bad. But I will read it as, "I know where I am when faced with aggression from an evidently aggressive person, the "rules of engagement" are clear."

LOL..we really are worlds apart, aren't we? I love how the internet brings us together.

I didn't mean that my day was made when the shithead pulled a gun, G...rather that when the guy with the shaved head and the tattoos and the extensive criminal record and the sneer pulls a gun, I expect it, I am not surprised. Hopefully I have left myself enough advantage to win the confrontation.

When a 10 year old boy with a teddy bear and a smile takes a shot at me with a 9mm...well, we certainly TRY to be ready for that, but it's easy to be complacent and not expect that behavior from him. As SP said...cognitive dissonance.

I worked cases worse than granny cutting up her great granddaughter. For me, insanity is no excuse. Death by whatever means the state uses, and lets move on.

To my mind...if the person truly is insane, I don't want them living next to me, do you? Why should we pay for their room and board for life? They committed a cold blooded murder.
Let's say therapy actually worked and they were cured. (Trying not to laugh hysterically here) If they were ACTUALLY cured, could they live with themselves knowing they had chopped up their little grandchild? Probably not.

Crap...you got me started. Or I got me started. Sorry.

[Mr. B]

Where cops have problems is when "good" people- not the ones in the shithead category- do awful things. When a sweet grandmother chops her great granddaughter into pieces because her dog is hungry, a woman who raised a large family and never had even a traffic ticket...well, that's what gets to you. The idea that a cop sees a particular segment of society is false- we deal with all segments, and see depravity everywhere. That's when you start doubting...well, everything.

That's just it though isn't it? You don't call 911 when everything is going well. As a police officer you were trained and expected to deal with potentially violent situations constantly. Domestic disputes, crazy grannies, gang violence, suicidal people even car wrecks. Paramedics and EMT are likely just as susceptible to becoming jaded.

The men and women who choose these professions are on the front line everyday. They have coping mechanisms. Jokes. Friends. Family. They try to focus on all the good that is in their life but it ain't easy. It's when someone doesn't have a good support network that they fall into a desperate, dark cynicism.

The injustice of it is when people, who have no idea how much carnage and depravity police and medical professionals are exposed to everyday, begin to antagonize, scrutinize and judge those people for their seemingly nonchalant views regarding human life even though those professionals are out there everyday trying to protect life in the face of seemingly impossible odds.

The world has truly gone mad...yet again.

[imaginaryfriendless]

The world has truly gone mad...yet again.

Agreed! And not for the last time, I imagine.

People who live safe lives rarely understand graveyard humor...I've seen quite a few cases where a person gets highly offended and files complaints or even lawsuits because the cops or paramedics didn't know they were there, and were using this coping mechanism to deal with the situation. It does often sound callus and evil...but it's simply a way to live with what you have to do every day.

[Icarus]

IF has written some interesting stuff. Back on page one of this thread he said that; "Obama has done a great deal of damage and divided us racially". I would be pleased to learn some of the details that support that allegation.  IF appears to be an articulate person. I want to learn about these things for which I had not been previously aware.  Not to start a pissing contest here, but I do take issue with that particular generality until I become more informed.

[imaginaryfriendless]

Obama has done a great deal of damage and divided us racially

Really? To be honest, if it isn't obvious I'm not sure I can help. In the last 5 years or so, it has become black vs white in a way unseen since the days of slavery. Obama constantly champions the poor black man being killed by whites, yet never mentions the poor black men being killed by blacks (much more common)
He attends the funerals of complete shitheads killed by police officers, because they are black. Yet he has NO COMMENT on innocent white officers gunned down by blacks.
He applauds- literally applauds- the actions of BLM, a terrorist outfit if there ever was one.
He has even used his authority to help divide us even further by sexual preference.

The evidence is very plain, but for some reason many liberals just want to continue making excuses for his behavior. It's taking us to a dark place, where I'd prefer not to go. But things aren't true or false depending on how much we really, really want them to be, I'm afraid.