Atheists got it wrong?

[Ecurb Noselrub]

"Good people do good things, bad people do bad things. To make good people do bad things often takes religion."  Can't remember who said that though....

Physicist Steven Weinberg of the University of Texas

[keithpenrod]

"Good people do good things, bad people do bad things. To make good people do bad things often takes religion."

I think that's an oversimplification.  Evidence has been presented to indicate that people will do things against their personal moral code if instructed to do so forcefully from an authority figure.  Thus, perhaps blind obedience to authority causes good people to do bad things--not necessarily just religion.  Obviously, some religious teachings do cause people to do bad things that they would otherwise not do, but I think it has more to do with bowing to authority than just religion itself.

[xSilverPhinx]

"Good people do good things, bad people do bad things. To make good people do bad things often takes religion."

I think that's an oversimplification.  Evidence has been presented to indicate that people will do things against their personal moral code if instructed to do so forcefully from an authority figure.  Thus, perhaps blind obedience to authority causes good people to do bad things--not necessarily just religion.  Obviously, some religious teachings do cause people to do bad things that they would otherwise not do, but I think it has more to do with bowing to authority than just religion itself.

I agree that it is an over-simplification, experiments such as the Milgram experiment and the Stanford prison experiment illustrate these sorts of situations well.

Besides people seeing their religious authority as being an authority on matters that transcend their religions or even areas of theological/philosophical expertise, it's easier for religious people to place the responsibility for their actions on another, either god or the devil: "the devil made me do it" and "its god's will". That in turn exacerbates what's called the Bystander effect in which the extent to which people feel responsible for their actions is indirectly proportional to the number of people involved. Though by no means do atheists always take responsibility for their actions, we don't have those two convenient options...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility

I'm convinced that responsibility for one's actions is an important foundation of good behaviour and even morality. If criminals knew they were going to get caught and were going to answer for their crimes, they might've thought twice about committing a crime, or at least weighed their reasons more carefully. Believing that they're not going to get caught has the opposite effect. In that way, I can see how the whole idea of hell, and an omniscient god watching your every move evolved to make a more functional primitive/tribal society.

So...religion can facilitate immoral behavior, but it's a bit of a stretch to say that it causes it in some circumstances.

[Asmodean]

1. All Religions are the Same and are "Equally Crazy"

Capital S in "Same", eh?

They are not the same, but there are similarities. As far as theistic religions go, those include belief in the existence of highly questionable beings. It's no more crazy in itself, really, than believing in Santa or tooth faries, but organised religion does tend to turn the "mildly eccentric" into total whackjobs

2. Atheists are Anti-Religious

Some are, some aren't. How is that wrong though?

3. Religion Causes Bad Behavior

...Among others by being a fine shield to hide your differently motivated actions behind. How is this wrong?

4. Religion Requires a Belief in a Supernatural God

Theism is not necessarilly the same as religion. Theistic religions, however, do.

5. Liberal and Moderate Religion Justifies Religious Extremism

In that religious extremists can use the views of liberals and moderates for justification of their means, yes. I have not come across too many atheists who have made this particular point though.

[keithpenrod]

1. All Religions are the Same and are "Equally Crazy"

Capital S in "Same", eh?

Yeah, religious folk like to capitalize lots of words.  Like third-person personal pronouns and familial relationships.   

[The Magic Pudding]

5. Liberal and Moderate Religion Justifies Religious Extremism

In that religious extremists can use the views of liberals and moderates for justification of their means, yes. I have not come across too many atheists who have made this particular point though.

If the general consensus is god is real and his word written, it's probably logical to get hard-line, get god into the classroom, government, bedroom.  Hey he is watching, the end is nigh, no time to be wishy washy, immortal souls are at stake.

[squidfetish]

(Buddhism?)

Yeah Buddhism in its very nature is atheistic, there are gods in certain strains of Buddhism but a belief in a god isn't a prerequisite for Buddhism. There are other religions that don't believe in a god such as the Samkhya and Mimamsa schools of Hinduism; Confucianism (humanist) and Taoism (focus on nature) though both started out as philosophies they are now considered to be religions and have multiple different forms, mostly without a god but similarly to Buddhism gods arise when the philosophy has merged with the folk religions; There is also Jainism that believe that every being - material or spiritual - is worthy of the same respect and do not worship anything. They are the ones I know of there may be more but I do not know of any others.

Nice one. Thanks Crow! 

[history_geek]

1. All Religions are the Same and are "Equally Crazy"
2. Atheists are Anti-Religious
3. Religion Causes Bad Behavior
4. Religion Requires a Belief in a Supernatural God
5. Liberal and Moderate Religion Justifies Religious Extremism

1: well I wouldn't say that they are "the Same", nor would I agree that the are "Equally Crazy". However, I do think that they are all "Equal" in the way that none of them are more valid or non-valid then any other. And I would replace "Crazy" with "hey are all Silly", because of their odd requirement to believe anything and everything that the "chiefs" or priests or whatnot tell them to believe and interpite their scriptures as they tell them, or the individuals interpite them as they want so that they fit their own world views.....

2: I relly don't see how this is something that atheist mistake about religion, as much as theists mistakenly thinking about athestis, as others have already noted....

3: no, I would never say it is a cause, but the used excuse for any and all acts that can be considered as "bad", from pointless and baseless bigotry to outright acts of violence and hate.

4: as pointed out by others, not all religions require belief in supernatural beings or whatever might be considered as "god". THey do however in my opinnion require some kind of written scripture or dogma, and a hierarchy. These can be found in practically every religion, even when the hierarchy is nothing more then a question of who is considered as a priest and who is not. Or that's my interpitation anyway....

5: I wouldn't know about them "justifying" extremism in anyway, instead I would argue that every religion has the possibility for extrimist interpitations and behaviour, and even outright fanaticism. It depends on the indivudual believers and "spreaders of the word" (priests, "prophets" and what have you) if such things will manifest, however.

[Jose AR]

Another "any thoughts?" posting. Do YOU have any thoughts? I must be in a bad mood, but I am tired of people quoting articles and asking for comments.

Jose AR

[xSilverPhinx]

Another "any thoughts?" posting. Do YOU have any thoughts? I must be in a bad mood, but I am tired of people quoting articles and asking for comments.

Jose AR

Chill...

[squidfetish]

"Good people do good things, bad people do bad things. To make good people do bad things often takes religion."

I think that's an oversimplification.  Evidence has been presented to indicate that people will do things against their personal moral code if instructed to do so forcefully from an authority figure.  Thus, perhaps blind obedience to authority causes good people to do bad things--not necessarily just religion.  Obviously, some religious teachings do cause people to do bad things that they would otherwise not do, but I think it has more to do with bowing to authority than just religion itself.

I think the 'often' part sort of covers that, but your post certainly unpacks the quote for clarity.