For the US/Texan motor sports fans here.

[Happy_Is_Good]

NASCAR has a lot of faults. 

NASCAR still practices the Invocation before races, and it lets a bit too many rednecks into its ranks of drivers.

Nevertheless...it's fun and affordable!  And it's infinitely accessible compared to F1.  I mean, you can actually walk up to those drivers and say "Hello"!

Also, NASCAR is accused of being "low tech" - but this doesn't matter.  The people who watch NASCAR consider f1 "Low Tech" compared to the F-35 or F-22.  Seriously, I talked to a NASCAR fan at the Texas Speedway - who worked for Lockheed on the F-35 - and he thought F1 was a Joke technologically.

Seriously...F1 does not impress Americans with its technology.  F1 just doesn't measure up.

Next...we'll talk about driving and what NASCAR fans see as a weakness in F1 drivers.

[technolud]

Dem sounds like fight'en words.

Good thing we're not talking about anything important.

[Tank]

NASCAR has a lot of faults. 

NASCAR still practices the Invocation before races, and it lets a bit too many rednecks into its ranks of drivers.

Nevertheless...it's fun and affordable!  And it's infinitely accessible compared to F1.  I mean, you can actually walk up to those drivers and say "Hello"!

Also, NASCAR is accused of being "low tech" - but this doesn't matter.  The people who watch NASCAR consider f1 "Low Tech" compared to the F-35 or F-22.  Seriously, I talked to a NASCAR fan at the Texas Speedway - who worked for Lockheed on the F-35 - and he thought F1 was a Joke technologically.

Seriously...F1 does not impress Americans with its technology.  F1 just doesn't measure up.

Next...we'll talk about driving and what NASCAR fans see as a weakness in F1 drivers.

How many American drivers have made it in F1? Zero, nada, fuck all. 
Nigel Mansell won the F1 Championship went to America and won the US chamionship, first 'rooky' ever to do so.

Nigel Ernest James Mansell, CBE (born 8 August 1953 in Upton-upon-Severn, Worcestershire, England) is a British racing driver who won both the Formula One World Championship (1992) and the CART Indy Car World Series (1993). Mansell was the reigning F1 champion when he moved over to CART, being the first person to win the CART title in his debut season, making him the only person to hold both titles simultaneously.

It was a while ago but F1 drivers who are 'past it' in F1 often retire to CART racing in the USA and win loads of races 

[Crow]

Also, NASCAR is accused of being "low tech" - but this doesn't matter.  The people who watch NASCAR consider f1 "Low Tech" compared to the F-35 or F-22.  Seriously, I talked to a NASCAR fan at the Texas Speedway - who worked for Lockheed on the F-35 - and he thought F1 was a Joke technologically.

If NASCAR used jet engines I would agree with you but they don't. Plus F1 isn't even going to be anywhere in comparison to a jet fighter technology wise, a single F-35 costs $197m and estimated development cost of a trillion, and no restrictions. I can only find costs for 2006 but you are talking about £250m costs for the season on average with lots of restrictions in place. I would never compare a fighter jet to a jumbo jet never mind a racing car to a fighter jet.

[Happy_Is_Good]

How many American drivers have made it in F1? Zero, nada, fuck all.  

Well...how many F1 Drivers have made it in NASCAR?  None!

Not Raikonnen, Sato, Villunueve, Montoya...etc...

They just don't cut it.

NASCAR requires a type of refined set of skills that F1 Drivers are just not trained to develop.  I shall discuss this later.

[Happy_Is_Good]

Dem sounds like fight'en words.

Good thing we're not talking about anything important.

Personally...i think this is a varient of the Bicycle Shed Argument.  Someone let me know when they want to back off....Please.  I'll do it. 

[Tank]

How many American drivers have made it in F1? Zero, nada, fuck all.  

Well...how many F1 Drivers have made it in NASCAR?  None!

Not Raikonnen, Sato, Villunueve, Montoya...etc...

They just don't cut it.

NASCAR requires a type of refined set of skills that F1 Drivers are just not trained to develop.  I shall discuss this later.

What's the crossover like between CART and NASCAR drivers as that would be a little more indicative of transferable skill set. Comparing F1 and NASCAR is like comparing Apples and Banananananas (I know how to spell it but not when to stop), but CART and F1 are much more comparable and that's where US drivers simply can't hack it but is that because the good CART drivers go on to NASCAR because that's where the money is?

[Happy_Is_Good]

How many American drivers have made it in F1? Zero, nada, fuck all.  

Well...how many F1 Drivers have made it in NASCAR?  None!

Not Raikonnen, Sato, Villunueve, Montoya...etc...

They just don't cut it.

NASCAR requires a type of refined set of skills that F1 Drivers are just not trained to develop.  I shall discuss this later.

What's the crossover like between CART and NASCAR drivers as that would be a little more indicative of transferable skill set. Comparing F1 and NASCAR is like comparing Apples and Banananananas (I know how to spell it but not when to stop), but CART and F1 are much more comparable and that's where US drivers simply can't hack it but is that because the good CART drivers go on to NASCAR because that's where the money is?

Tank,

I agree with you.  I'm just angry about how F1 has screwed Texas...and ME!

F1 is extracting $20 Million/year for sanctioning fees from this state that really can't afford shit like this much longer.  Texas had it's "Ireland" moment...now, we are broke.  Yet...some really smart guy can convince our Governor to play the fool - and seeing that the Governor is Rick Perry, maybe this isn't so hard to do.  I just don't like it.

Likewise, when NASCAR returned to Texas in the mid 90's, the track was built without taxpayer subsidy and will draw in any given year twice the crowds as will this Austin F1 track (200,000 vs 100,000) - and do it three times a year!

If F1 had come here of its own accord and had a private developer build the track without screwing the Taxpayer, then I would say...Hell yeah!  Instead, F1 is doing what it always does...promise world-class Sh_t at the expense of the Taxpayer!  What a freakin' welfare case that dare say its a legitimate business!  Isn't there another Turkey, Dubai or China that F1 can screw out of money?

And...if NASCAR ever tried the same thing, then I would despise NASCAR, too.  In fact, I really despise American Football (NFL) because they have perfected the art of dry-humping the taxpayer!

Sorry for the rant.

Anyways...In my estimation, F1 drivers still are great drivers.  They certainly taught CART and Indy a thing, or two.  I think what helps these drivers (F1) become so damned good is that they are very competitively selected (but NASCAR is, too - but not so much Indy...they suck) but then they are given an amount of seat-time in car that is incomprehensible to a CART, Indy or NASCAR driver.  Man...they not only can drive that F1 car like demons, but they almost wear it like a suit!  It's crazy.   

[Icarus]

Tank you are woefully misinformed about the engineering excellence of NASCAR engines, the extent of aerodynamic attention to the boxy cars, and the skill set of the drivers.  The required engine is a 5.7 litre, two valve, pushrod, V8.  The basic engine design was first produced in 1954 by Chevrolet.  It has become ever more sophisticated such that it routinely makes 150HP per litre. It is an antiquated design that has been developed to a fine degree of output and reliability. Were the rules more modern we could and would produce far more advanced designs that can easily rival Ferrari, Mercedes, Cosworth or any other.

The bodies of the cars do not have wings or other adjustable aero devices. However the State of North Carolina, where the hillbillies hold forth, has at least a dozen ultra modern wind tunnels, some with moving road facilities. There are many aero facilities in other parts of the country too. There are many chassis dynomometers that test the suspensions in at least eight planes. The NASCAR lot is concentrated in N.C. The whole improbable scenario is big business where mega dollars are spent every week. 

The drivers are not fat slobs who spit tobacco juice. They are skilled athletes who work out strenuously and consistently. Their skill applies to the cars and tracks where they run. Incidentally, they run on road courses two or three times a season. The drivers do much more than try to avoid crashes. They travel at speeds near the F1 speeds and all the drivers know that crashing is not at all a healthy passtime, nor does it bring much purse money. Did you know that the three podium finishes accumulate to about two million dollars in pay week in and week out.

All that said, NASCAR bores the shit out of me. I am a motorcycle guy, mechanical engineer, vast experience on the flow bench and dyno, former pro bike closed course road racer, engine builder, and a few more things that qualify me to challenge about your absence of factual details of the crazy American racing scene. I dearly appreciate the sheer excellence of the F1 and MotoGP world. I am fully aware that the technology being exploited in those areas are more advanced than our stubborn, backwater rules allow.  The way we do it may be retro but we do it very well.

Just sayin'

[Crow]

All that said, NASCAR bores the shit out of me. I am a motorcycle guy, mechanical engineer, vast experience on the flow bench and dyno, former pro bike closed course road racer, engine builder, and a few more things that qualify me to challenge about your absence of factual details of the crazy American racing scene. I dearly appreciate the sheer excellence of the F1 and MotoGP world. I am fully aware that the technology being exploited in those areas are more advanced than our stubborn, backwater rules allow.  The way we do it may be retro but we do it very well.

When you say "closed course road racer" as the American terminology is different to our own does that mean what the rest of the world would consider a normal motor racing circuit? When I hear road race I think of the TT and other temporary tracks that use the public roads such as Monaco.