Why Did God Have to Make Evil?

[Voter]

Just so Voter and AnimatedDirt know the definition of Omniscience, we should post it here from them:

Omniscience (pronounced /É'mˈnɪsiÉ™ns/)[1] (or omniscient point-of-view in writing) is the capacity to know everything infinitely

Oh my...with this new information, I may have to change my mind on everything!

Damn, me too - I thought it referred to someone who is really good at science!

[Davin]

Already answered. What part don't you understand?

OK, you said that Adam and Eve had a kind of knowledge, but not the knowledge of good evil that the bible says they got from eating some fruit. Why would god punish a person for doing something they did not know was evil to do? That is the part I do not understand.

[Voter]

OK, you said that Adam and Eve had a kind of knowledge, but not the knowledge of good evil that the bible says they got from eating some fruit. Why would god punish a person for doing something they did not know was evil to do? That is the part I do not understand.

They had an intellectual knowledge that it was wrong, but not an experiential knowledge. You can punish someone based on intellectual knowledge alone.

[AnimatedDirt]

Already answered. What part don't you understand?

OK, you said that Adam and Eve had a kind of knowledge, but not the knowledge of good evil that the bible says they got from eating some fruit. Why would god punish a person for doing something they did not know was evil to do? That is the part I do not understand.

Wrong is not Evil.  Wrong is a result of Evil.  Eve had the knowledge of what was right and wrong, at least in regard to the tree.  She knew it was wrong as God had plainly told them not to take the fruit.  What she didn't understand is the EVIL it takes for another to tempt her and twist the truth.  The serpent didn't necessarily lie to her, but twisted and simply questioned the truth which is evil.  After committing the wrong, she(they) then understood Good and Evil.

[Davin]

They had an intellectual knowledge that it was wrong, but not an experiential knowledge. You can punish someone based on intellectual knowledge alone.

She didn't have experiential knowledge, all that means is that she needed experience and the fruit of some tree. But to get that experience, she needs to do something, and that something gets her punished.

Wrong is not Evil.  Wrong is a result of Evil.  Eve had the knowledge of what was right and wrong, at least in regard to the tree.  She knew it was wrong as God had plainly told them not to take the fruit.  What she didn't understand is the EVIL it takes for another to tempt her and twist the truth.

So by gaining understanding she gets punished? And in order for her to learn that it's evil for people to tempt her and twist the truth, she gets punished?

The serpent didn't necessarily lie to her, but twisted and simply questioned the truth which is evil.

Wait, what is evil?

After committing the wrong, she(they) then understood Good and Evil.

And got punished for understanding good and evil?

I'm not seeing what is wrong with eating some fruit that will give one knowledge of good and evil. Also wasn't that part of this gods plan?

[Voter]

She didn't have experiential knowledge, all that means is that she needed experience and the fruit of some tree. But to get that experience, she needs to do something, and that something gets her punished.

In order to gain experiential knowledge of right and wrong, you can logically do either what is wrong, or what is right. I.e., if they had resisted the temptation, they would have gained experiential knowledge of right and wrong as well.

[Davin]

She didn't have experiential knowledge, all that means is that she needed experience and the fruit of some tree. But to get that experience, she needs to do something, and that something gets her punished.

In order to gain experiential knowledge of right and wrong, you can logically do either what is wrong, or what is right. I.e., if they had resisted the temptation, they would have gained experiential knowledge of right and wrong as well.

They had resisted the temptation up until they ate the fruit.

[AnimatedDirt]

So by gaining understanding she gets punished? And in order for her to learn that it's evil for people to tempt her and twist the truth, she gets punished?

Is it that difficult?  She/we get punished for wrong.  She did what God didn't want her to do.  It had nothing to do with the fruit, but doing what is wrong...following evil and not God.

Wait, what is evil?

Tempting or leading others into wrong.  The root cause of...  Pride is the root of all Evil.  Pride that we, the created, know more or better than the Creator.

And got punished for understanding good and evil?

No.  The death punishment is for doing wrong and choosing evil over God.  If God alone is the sustainer of life, then choosing against God is to die...hence Adam and Eve began to die the moment the did wrong...chose evil.

I'm not seeing what is wrong with eating some fruit that will give one knowledge of good and evil. Also wasn't that part of this gods plan?

Nothing is wrong with eating fruit.  The fruit was a tool.  God's plan was that His created choose Him.  God's foreknowledge was that not all would and in fact with the fall of one, all their offspring would be lost as they would be also tainted "from conception".
The "rescue" or plan of salvation was set before creation as God already knew the outcome. (Ephesians 1:4, 1 Peter 1:20)

[Davin]

So by gaining understanding she gets punished? And in order for her to learn that it's evil for people to tempt her and twist the truth, she gets punished?

Is it that difficult?  She/we get punished for wrong.  She did what God didn't want her to do.  It had nothing to do with the fruit, but doing what is wrong...following evil and not God.

But she had no knowledge of evil.

Wait, what is evil?

Tempting or leading others into wrong.  The root cause of...  Pride is the root of all Evil.  Pride that we, the created, know more or better than the Creator.

That sounds a lot better than simply questioning being evil, glad you cleared that up.

And got punished for understanding good and evil?

No.  The death punishment is for doing wrong and choosing evil over God.  If God alone is the sustainer of life, then choosing against God is to die...hence Adam and Eve began to die the moment the did wrong...chose evil.

They didn't know they were choosing evil because they had no knowledge of it.

I'm not seeing what is wrong with eating some fruit that will give one knowledge of good and evil. Also wasn't that part of this gods plan?

Nothing is wrong with eating fruit.  The fruit was a tool.  God's plan was that His created choose Him.  God's foreknowledge was that not all would and in fact with the fall of one, all their offspring would be lost as they would be also tainted "from conception".
The "rescue" or plan of salvation was set before creation as God already knew the outcome. (Ephesians 1:4, 1 Peter 1:20)

So god punished them for following his plan?

[AnimatedDirt]

But she had no knowledge of evil.

She didn't need it to live.

They didn't know they were choosing evil because they had no knowledge of it.

Evil is the cause of their downfall.  Knowledge of it means they now had an intimate knowledge of how evil works...and they gave into it.

So god punished them for following his plan?

His plan was that His created stay with Him by choice.  The plan of salvation, while made prior, didn't go into effect until sin came in.

[Davin]

But she had no knowledge of evil.

She didn't need it to live.

You said, "It had nothing to do with the fruit, but doing what is wrong...following evil and not God." However she had no knowledge of good and evil until after eating the fruit, which not only gave her the knowledge that eating the fruit would be evil, but also punishment.

They didn't know they were choosing evil because they had no knowledge of it.

Evil is the cause of their downfall.  Knowledge of it means they now had an intimate knowledge of how evil works...and they gave into it.

And got punished for doing something they didn't know was evil.

So god punished them for following his plan?

His plan was that His created stay with Him by choice.  The plan of salvation, while made prior, didn't go into effect until sin came in.

Stay on topic, we're talking about Adam and Eve doing something that god planned and getting punished for it.

[AnimatedDirt]

You said, "It had nothing to do with the fruit, but doing what is wrong...following evil and not God." However she had no knowledge of good and evil until after eating the fruit, which not only gave her the knowledge that eating the fruit would be evil, but also punishment.

Not correct.

And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground--trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

They knew the taking of the fruit was against God's will and so wrong.  They only knew the tree was called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
They were not wanting of fruit as they had a whole garden full of fruit.

And got punished for doing something they didn't know was evil.

No, they chose to go against God which if He is the sustainer of life, brings death.  Evil is what they chose, not what they did, necessarily.

Stay on topic, we're talking about Adam and Eve doing something that god planned and getting punished for it

It wasn't me confusing the "plans"...I simply clarified where you are mistaken.
God didn't "plan" to purposely fail, but knew the outcome.  Both are plans, one is a plan that doesn't come into play until it is needed.
Both Adam and Eve were fully aware of what was right and wrong.  They weren't clueless.

[LegendarySandwich]

Already answered. What part don't you understand?

To make this analogy as accurate as possible, you would have to be the one who gave him food allergies.

[Achronos]

AnimatedDirt and Voter, I wrote a long piece on Evil a few pages back. May I ask what is your take on that?

[Voter]

Already answered. What part don't you understand?

To make this analogy as accurate as possible, you would have to be the one who gave him food allergies.

If such allergies are genetic and I'm his father, I suppose I did.