Ethical basis for Veganism or Vegetarianism?

[Thumpalumpacus]

You should've had some of the lamb stew I made last night, it was very good, if I may so allow.

[Asmodean]

Tonight, I will has me a dinner at Big Horn. Many an animal have to die a horrible death to provide me with all that juicy lightly marinated tastiness  

[The Magic Pudding]

You should've had some of the lamb stew I made last night, it was very good, if I may so allow.

Stew! does any meat benefit from such treatment? Unless it was dodgy to begin with.
Bake a leg, toss a chop in a pan but stew, I'd have to be convinced that is a good idea.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yes, I prefer my meat roasted, but 1) this wasn't great meat, because good lamb is horribly expensive in America, and 2) I was busy contracting a cold, and stew is what this doctor orders.  Mmmm, broth.

That said, I'll be making homemade beef jerky tonight.  It's been marinating for five or so days now.

[Sophus]

I think you're on shaky ground using developing countries to defend meat consumption.

Chicken thigh fillets are on the menu tonight, best argument I can find for eating them is I want to.

What I'm saying is there are some tribes who raise cattle and depend on those bovine to survive. The Nuer tribes in a pastoral region of Ethiopia for example, meat is their main food supply. Good luck to anyone trying to convince them they should give that up and "go vegan" because what they're doing is immoral and "unnecessary".

[legs laney]

Everything that you can consume was alive at some point... whether you're murdering animals or raping the land, you need to eat to survive.  Every living thing exercises this basic survival principal.  Now, I personally do believe that unneccessary torture is evil... hope that addresses your question.

[The Magic Pudding]

What I'm saying is there are some tribes who raise cattle and depend on those bovine to survive. The Nuer tribes in a pastoral region of Ethiopia for example, meat is their main food supply. Good luck to anyone trying to convince them they should give that up and "go vegan" because what they're doing is immoral and "unnecessary".

People like this are often forced off their land, the powerful then farm it intensively and export the produce.
The fate of the native farmers and sustainability doesn't really matter.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Not to worry, Pudding, poor folk can't usually afford meat in their diets anyway.  We'll make them go vegan one way or the other.

[Tank]

Everything that you can consume was alive at some point... whether you're murdering animals or raping the land, you need to eat to survive.  Every living thing exercises this basic survival principal.  Now, I personally do believe that unnecessary torture is evil... hope that addresses your question.

What would you consider necessary torture?  

[Sophus]

The fate of the native farmers and sustainability doesn't really matter.

What?

[The Magic Pudding]

The fate of the native farmers and sustainability doesn't really matter.

What?

Doesn't matter to the people taking their land or to the people eating grain fed beef in wealthy countries.

[LegendarySandwich]

Everything that you can consume was alive at some point... whether you're murdering animals or raping the land, you need to eat to survive.  Every living thing exercises this basic survival principal.  Now, I personally do believe that unnecessary torture is evil... hope that addresses your question.

What would you consider necessary torture?  

Well, I think the torture of criminals could be justified if you had to get them to reveal secrets.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Everything that you can consume was alive at some point... whether you're murdering animals or raping the land, you need to eat to survive.  Every living thing exercises this basic survival principal.  Now, I personally do believe that unnecessary torture is evil... hope that addresses your question.

What would you consider necessary torture?  

Well, I think the torture of criminals could be justified if you had to get them to reveal secrets.

Really?

I disagree, absolutely.  Not only is torture immoral, to my mind, it is inefficient.

[legs laney]

Everything that you can consume was alive at some point... whether you're murdering animals or raping the land, you need to eat to survive.  Every living thing exercises this basic survival principal.  Now, I personally do believe that unnecessary torture is evil... hope that addresses your question.

What would you consider necessary torture?  

I think it is fairly obvious that if you are killing an animal to eat it or yanking a fruit off a tree that torture is certain.  Can you do either of those things without torturing the subject?  If so, enlighten me.

[LegendarySandwich]

Really?

I disagree, absolutely.  Not only is torture immoral, to my mind, it is inefficient.

I think that any act can be justified under certain specific circumstances. Take, for example, this hypothetical situation: a terrorist has planted bombs at a couple of different heavily-populated locations in a city. The bombs are set to go off in about an hour. The only way for the police to find and disable the bombs in time would be to torture the terrorist using new, high-tech techniques that are almost guaranteed to work. Would you still be against torture in this situation?