Noobie checking in!

izult · September 06, 2007, 06:29:16 AM

Noobie here. Only been an atheist officially for about 7 years now but one could say Iâ€™ve always had my doubts. Canâ€™t say I didnâ€™t want to believe. I REALLY wanted to have some of the â€œspiritualâ€ experiences that everyone else around me seemed to be experiencing. Not entirely sure why I never did, other than I tend to be extremely rational and once Iâ€™ve seen how the magician does the act the magic is gone. I grew up Mormon (LDS if you want to get good an proper) and yes, yes I know thereâ€™s many people, even Christians that see it as a crazy cult.

It wasnâ€™t the crazy that drove me away, though it sure did help. Science put the final nail in that coffin. Long story short the Mormon claim that the native peoples of America are descendants of Jewish refugees was proven to be false.

I was amazed to find myself going through some of the stages of grief. Iâ€™m still obsessed with religion but for me Iâ€™m more obsessed with finding the origins of it. Why it came about, and why itâ€™s still here and will it still be here in another thousand years? So thatâ€™s basically why Iâ€™m here to see who else is digging for answers to the origins or just a good old fashioned BS session.

So /wave!!

SteveS · September 06, 2007, 03:52:35 PM

Hello izult - welcome aboard!

Regarding LDS, the popular phrase around the net, espoused by non-believers, seems to be "they don't make any less sense than anybody else". :wink:

Some of the others around here probably have some good ideas on the origin of religion --- its not a topic I know a whole lot about. I seem to be more inclined to want to argue with religious people :roll:

Or just BS - that's always fun!

MommaSquid · September 06, 2007, 07:29:48 PM

Welcome to the forum, izult. We're a pretty friendly bunch of atheist, so feel free to join in.

rlrose328 · September 06, 2007, 07:37:00 PM

Quote from: "izult"I was amazed to find myself going through some of the stages of grief. Iâ€™m still obsessed with religion but for me Iâ€™m more obsessed with finding the origins of it. Why it came about, and why itâ€™s still here and will it still be here in another thousand years? So thatâ€™s basically why Iâ€™m here to see who else is digging for answers to the origins or just a good old fashioned BS session.

I've never put it into words like this before, but this is me! I'm obsessed with religion and the belief in god... I'm afraid I've scared people away because of it.

Anyway, welcome! I'll be glad to see what we can discuss!

tigerlily46514 · September 07, 2007, 09:22:07 PM

Welcome to the forum, Noobie!
Me, i'm always up for a good old fashioned BS session!!

~jean

izult · September 08, 2007, 04:43:12 AM

that's so funny rose. I feel the same why. I get so excited when i talk origins that i'm pretty sure i've seen the "maybe if i back away slowly she won't notice" look in peoples eyes.

donkeyhoty · September 10, 2007, 09:14:18 AM

The Mormons are really interesting, to me, because their "mythology" was created less than 200 years ago. Thus allowing us non-believers to see how even more bat-shit crazy all religions are. "He just made it up by looking in a hat? Holy shit, people will believe anything."

Unfortunately there's still a disconnect in the minds of the religious when they say their beliefs and magical stories are true and everyone else just made it up.

izult · September 11, 2007, 03:36:16 AM

oh yeah, translating the bom with the help of the "seer stone" is only the tip of the iceberg on the crazy.

rlrose328 · September 11, 2007, 06:13:48 AM

I had a nice chat 4 years or so ago with a Mormon neighbor while my Catholic mother was visiting. I'm a firm believer in asking ANYTHING and if someone doesn't want to answer, that's fine, won't hurt my feelings, so I took the opportunity (a scrapbooking day at my house) to just ask whatever questions I had about LDS (underwear, rituals, etc.). She was very forthcoming and it was quite interesting in a clinical way.

When she left, my mom went into a panic (this was well before I "came out")... "You're not going to be a Mormon, are you?!?!" :-) I can laugh now, but she was truly horrified that I'd asked all those questions, leading the neighbor to believe I wanted to convert. LOL!

SteveS · September 11, 2007, 06:59:14 AM

So - did you find out what the deal is with the underwear? Seems like a weird thing to be concerned with. I have to imagine the concern is somehow sexual. Religion and sexuality make such kinky bedfellows....

rlrose328 · September 11, 2007, 05:29:29 PM

She said it's because they believe their body is literally at temple (I guess to house the alien? :roll: ) and the nifty underwear are to keep their temple holy and modest, hence the symbols. At that point in my life, I didn't have the courage to ask how they go about the sex thing with fun underwear... LOL! I would NOW, of course...

I also asked her about their thinking that only Mormons get into heaven and she said it's not true, they believe everyone who has accepted Jesus Christ (blah blah) gets into heaven, but there's a higher heaven where GOD resides and you get THERE only if you've been baptised in the Mormon Church. That way, they can be baptised for anyone who has died before them who is in that "holding" heaven and move that person up into "real" heaven.

Those of us who are non-believers... we still burn.

izult · September 12, 2007, 02:58:34 AM

actually mormons believe that heaven is divided into three kingdoms.

Telestial, Terrestrial, and Celestial. Telestial is the lowest kingdom which is liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie. Atheists go here.

Terrestrial is the next step up so if you at least accepted jesus but didn't join their church i guess you're going there.

Celestial is reserved for the mormons of course. Here's where it gets real fun... the Celestial kingdom is divided into three more levels. At the highest level the men (high priests of course) obtain godhood and get to make their own worlds and populate them with the help of their many wives (yes we're talkin polygamy) who are more than happy to pop the spirit children for the many worlds that their husbands are going to make. That level of course is for those who truely believed, were full tithe payers, went to the temple, got their "garments" that's the funny underwear, did their work for the dead (i'll go into that later), and "endured to the end". Women who died unmarried and endured to the end get assigned a husband.

Level 2 is for those who believed, were members of the church, went through their temple ceremonies, but didn't quite do the whole enduring to the end part.. they're servants for those that did though.

Level 3 i can't remember that much about. Something about those who accepted the "gospel" after their death, ministering angels and whatnot.

Outerdarkness or their version of hell is reserved for those like myself who "accepted christ" but denied him. ah well....

Steve as far as the underwear goes they literally believe that it will protect them from harm. When they go through the temple they do this whole ceremony where they make all sorts of weird "covenants" with god, they get a new name, wear funny hats and aprons, are taught the proper way to great the guardians of heaven's gates so they'll be granted access to paradise upon death, and are taught the "deeper mysteries" of their church. They also vow to kill themselves if they reveal any of it to outsiders or non believers. The funny underwear is to remind them of their covenants with god ect. They have symbols sown into them above the navel, the right knee and both breasts.

I did mention that the crazy helped with the leaving bit right?

rlrose328 · September 12, 2007, 04:40:04 AM

LOL! Wow... my neighbor didn't go into NEAR that much detail! But I do recognize some terms she used that my brain refused to retain. Thanks for clearing up my woefully inadequate descriptions, izult.

SteveS · September 12, 2007, 06:14:45 AM

Quote from: "izult"Steve as far as the underwear goes they literally believe that it will protect them from harm.

This sounds reasonable enough - I believe my underwear keeps me from harm as well. I'm thinking chafe from things like denim pants could definitely be considered harmful, were it to occur in certain regions :wink:

Quote from: "izult"They have symbols sown into them above the navel
(emphasis added)

Yikes - I guess that rules out midriff baring fashion....

Quote from: "izult"I did mention that the crazy helped with the leaving bit right?

Yes, you did, and I understand.

Thanks for the response! I found it interesting.

izult · September 13, 2007, 01:49:33 AM

no problem if you want to know more i'll be happy to share. I immersed myself in the doctrine more so on the way out than when i was in and i knew it pretty damn good when i was in the cult. Kind of a know your enemy so to speak. As crazy as it sounds i think every atheist should read the bible and other sacred texts so they can at least debate the religions effectively and intelligently.

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