Arizona's Illegal Immigration Law

[Sophus]

I'm not the biggest Olbermann fan but wow. Jan Brewer's responses to the "what about your false headless bodies claim?" questions. Just... wow.
[youtube:2op3npnu]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwwVcfc34WU[/youtube:2op3npnu]

Anyone who is willing to make up this kind of whopper in the first place to pass a law like SB 1070, really makes you, to put it mildly, suspicious. Illegal immigration this year is down by over 60% yet they act like it has never been worse. Deploy the scare tactics! Don't let them know this is all about money. Greedy private run prisons.

[epepke]

I haven't been able to find the actual proposal online but indeed this sounds worse than Arizona's. 20 days in jail?

Arizona law already required immigrants to carry documentation long before.

The problem with the Arizona law, the thing that makes it Unconstituional as opposed to just stupid or bad, is that if the po-pos stop you and, if you don't have your papers, you're immediately arrested.  This, of course, will affect things like employment.  So, functionally, even citizens, if they want to avoid arrest, will have to carry proof of citizenship.  It's a pretty basic and traditional assumption, based on Constitutional arguments though, I think, not explicitly spelled out in the Constitution, that US citizens do not have to carry proof of citizenship.

[darkcyd]

I tried to skim through most of the responses before I posted but I am sure after 15 pages I could have missed something so be gentle.

First, the law. Yes, it is horribly unconstitutional. It leads us down a terrible road of national ID cards and the like.

Supply and demand are the only influences in the US labor market and there is no job Americans won't do. Will you pay twice as much for strawberries? Yes, but guess what, if those jobs were available for twice as much as what you pay illegal labor, people may not have lost their homes resulting in the morgage collapse. So, perhaps you end up spending more for fruit, veggies and you actually have to get off your butt and wash your own windows but you have a more stable lower/middle class resulting in a better America.

Making all current illegals legal would provide a short term stabilization of prices but you couldn't expect all of their children to work those same jobs picking fruit for half as much. No, they will have an education and the cost of unskilled labor would finally adjust to what it should be.

Should illegal labor be allowed to stay and if not, how do you remove them? Those are the big questions. I personally don't care. The damage has been done. The immigration quotas in the US are enforced for a reason, to prevent immigration from affecting the market and to prevent it from affecting culture extremely. I believe as I have to push 1 for english, we can't hope to undo the damage. The labor bubble will pop and unskilled labor will eventually climb like a rocket. I believe if you are going to set a circumstances for deporting anyone, it should be on the basis for language and make the fines and prison time for hiring illegals to be so ghastly unattractive that no one will do it. How much would it really cost to put some undercover cops where illegals look for work and then as soon as they are hired, arrest the guy?

Looking to the future, you have to secure the border and I believe Mexico at the moment has to help. If they chose not to help, I see no other way to do it but a huge fence and landmines. After the first one explodes, the rest will be less eager but I would hope Mexico would at some point change their policy. We simply don't have the funds to maintain a National Guard border patrol which adequate coverage.  Lastly on this note, I believe once it becomes obvious that the border will be uncrossable, many illegals will chose to return as they frequently send money to families but have no desire to move to the United States.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about Americans rights but our constitution doesn't extend to the planet. It just extends to Americans.

[Sophus]

Here's Conor's brand new song for the Sound Strike. It's about kids who get separated from their parents when they're deported. All proceeds go The Florence Project.

This Fund donates needed resources to families caring for children in Arizona whose parents are detained or have been deported, immigrant rights organizing and legal defense.

Arizona is a place where Maricopa County Sheriffs carry toys to calm the nerves of children whose parents are physically pried away from the arms of their children. Those immigrant parents are detained without bail or access to public defenders. The need for legal defense is great as is the need to provide assistance to the guardians, usually family or neighbor, that take in these emotionally distressed children while their parents are held by the Arizona immigrant hater prison system.

[pinkocommie]

Does it really bother people that they have to push 1 for English sometimes when using automated systems?  It certainly seems true that when the economy gets bad, nativism spikes like a mofo.  

[PoopShoot]

Does it really bother people that they have to push 1 for English sometimes when using automated systems?

Yes.  It does.  If people can't be bothered to learn the language, why should I bother to extend them courtesies?

[pinkocommie]

If English was the national language, your position would make more sense.  But yeah, I get it - screw anyone different from me!  Rrrahhhh, etc!  

[Sophus]

It's Capitalism. If companies want to make a Spanish option that's their own business (no pun intended).

[PoopShoot]

If English was the national language, your position would make more sense.  

Were there a national language at all there would be some recourse.

But yeah, I get it - screw anyone different from me!  Rrrahhhh, etc!  

But then you don't get it.

[pinkocommie]

If English was the national language, your position would make more sense.  

Were there a national language at all there would be some recourse.

But yeah, I get it - screw anyone different from me!  Rrrahhhh, etc!  

[pinkocommie]

It's Capitalism. If companies want to make a Spanish option that's their own business (no pun intended).

Yeah, exactly.  Until it's made a law that people MUST speak English to exist in the US, people are going to speak other languages in the US.  Boo hoo.  Get over it.  If you enjoy the benefits of capitalism, you're going to have to deal with the consequences as well.

(I had to edit to add that I don't think mandating the speaking of English actually would make all people in the country speak English, but it certainly would make those gosh darned numerated language options obsolete.)

[PoopShoot]

(I had to edit to add that I don't think mandating the speaking of English actually would make all people in the country speak English, but it certainly would make those gosh darned numerated language options obsolete.)

That only applies to government lines, it won't change that businesses who wish to serve customers of other languages will still have other language options in their phone menus.

[Thumpalumpacus]

When I went to Spain, I learned the language (or at least tried); I didn't expect them to cater to me and my English.

It irks me that I have neighbors who still speak Spanish to me even though they've been here for a couple of years.  While I understand the difficulties of learning a new language, it seems to me that when one moves to another country, learning the language should be a priority anyway.

[Sophus]

When I went to Spain, I learned the language (or at least tried); I didn't expect them to cater to me and my English.

It irks me that I have neighbors who still speak Spanish to me even though they've been here for a couple of years.  While I understand the difficulties of learning a new language, it seems to me that when one moves to another country, learning the language should be a priority anyway.

I'm curious, what do you mean by "went to Spain". Living there temporarily or just a visit. When I went on a cruise to Mexico I never once had to speak a word of English. Everyone who works with tourists learns the language.

[pinkocommie]

When I went to Spain, I learned the language (or at least tried); I didn't expect them to cater to me and my English.

It irks me that I have neighbors who still speak Spanish to me even though they've been here for a couple of years.  While I understand the difficulties of learning a new language, it seems to me that when one moves to another country, learning the language should be a priority anyway.

I agree, that is annoying.  I feel like people who come to the country, stay, and seem to have little desire to try to learn the language are aggravating, but it still doesn't bother me when there are language options on call menus.  The former seems like a legitimate issue while the latter seems silly.