Are there any black atheists?

[DropLogic]

I'm white, but I haven't ever really noticed before that black atheists are more rare than white atheists, that is to say within their respective race. Atheists are already a minority so I figure it would be expectedly more difficult to find a minority within a minority. So as far as number go there may be more white atheists, but percentage wise I can't imagine there would be a huge difference. Maybe I'm wrong.

How many black people do you know?  I can only speak for my experience in the US, but here, yes, you would be wrong.  It seems things are a little more reasonable across the pond.  Maybe I should move.

If I only went by personal experience/who I know, I would think white atheists are just as rare. You may very well be right, but I would rather see a scientific survey before coming to any conclusions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism
Take from this what you will...I noticed many many "citation needed".  As time goes by and more people begin raising their children in secular households, I'm sure the trends we all seek will begin to appear.  Patience

[humblesmurph]

I'm white, but I haven't ever really noticed before that black atheists are more rare than white atheists, that is to say within their respective race. Atheists are already a minority so I figure it would be expectedly more difficult to find a minority within a minority. So as far as number go there may be more white atheists, but percentage wise I can't imagine there would be a huge difference. Maybe I'm wrong.

How many black people do you know?  I can only speak for my experience in the US, but here, yes, you would be wrong.  It seems things are a little more reasonable across the pond.  Maybe I should move.

If I only went by personal experience/who I know, I would think white atheists are just as rare. You may very well be right, but I would rather see a scientific survey before coming to any conclusions.

Yes, this is what I would like to discuss.  I'm not trying to sound like a fundie or anything, but is it common for people to avoid coming to conclusions until they see a scientific study?  I hope I'm wording this correctly.  I'm not trying to pick a fight with you.

Doe the fact that Wikipedia states that blacks generally are more religious than whites and Asians in the US count as more conclusive evidence than personal experience?

[TheWilliam]

There are six black atheists.  Four of them post here.  The other two are unaccounted-for; they haven't reported in lately.

I had a meeting with them............ in Compton.

[DropLogic]

There are six black atheists.  Four of them post here.  The other two are unaccounted-for; they haven't reported in lately.

I had a meeting with them............ in Compton.

I'm callin' 6-6-6 on a motha f'in priest!

[Sophus]

Yes, this is what I would like to discuss.  I'm not trying to sound like a fundie or anything, but is it common for people to avoid coming to conclusions until they see a scientific study?  I hope I'm wording this correctly.  I'm not trying to pick a fight with you.

Doe the fact that Wikipedia states that blacks generally are more religious than whites and Asians in the US count as more conclusive evidence than personal experience?

Like I said, I could very well be wrong. Do you have a link to that page?

[radicalaggrivation]

I am a Black atheist. I have actually been contemplating about this topic myself lately. I am currently doing research to write a book about black faith in America. I grew up as a Muslim but since an overwhelming majority of Blacks are some form of Christian, I was always aware of the deep religious roots of my people. During my research I have found that Blacks tend to be the most dogmatically religious group in America. Black people go to church more, prey more, and consider God a very important part of their lives. I had to deal with being grilled about the nature of my beliefs when I was growing up often. Black Christians often looked down on me. In that way they set me down my path to intellectual and spiritual freedom. They made me question why I was a Muslim (especially considering I knew virtually nothing about the religion at the age of 16). After I saw first hand how Muslim women are treated I decided it was not for me because in my eyes a religion is responsible for the culture that springs up around it as well.

It is not enough to just say, "Oh, well we don't teach that. That is just a poor interpretation." Bullshit. So after that I tried to be a Catholic but it always threw me off because the guy who headed the choir was clearly gay and looked just like Bob Vila. I can remember when I got really critical of Christianity and having almost no one to answer my burning questions. When I was a Muslim, one girl in particular (who was a very devout Christian) told me that I was going to hell, in so many words. I can remember forming my first unanswerable question. If I have never heard of your religion and died would I still go to hell? I have never gotten a satifactory answer for this question yet. In a religious conversation, before I fully educated myself to the entire argument, this was my major trump card. Simply put, most Christians either do not know or understand that it is very wicked to send someone to eternal damnation because of their unwilling ignorance to your superstition. I asked my mom that same question and she told me that God could do what ever the hell he wanted . It was all down hill from there.

I guess the biggest issue I want to explore is what role religion has played in crippling the Black race in America. We traded physical slavery for mental slavery, it seems to me. Or should I say we dropped the physical slavery and kept the mental slavery. It is the most disturbing and heartbreaking form of Stockholm Syndrome in recorded history, in my opinion. We were brought here, stripped of our status as human beings, our culture destroyed, and our families torn apart. After a couple of hundred years of this, slave owners decided Blacks had souls too. Rejoicing at any opportunity to not be viciously monitored and to have some portion of the Black person seen as equal, many Blacks embraced the white ( and somehow Middle-Eastern) savior. The original use of providing a sense of togetherness and community still remains today. Perhaps this is the major reason that Blacks are so irrationally tied to Christianity. It has historically been one of the few institutions of respite and autonomy for Blacks. It is today one of the few places where Blacks can see some semblance of a community among our fractured and warring tribes.

We are today still crippled by economic segregation and self hatred. I did not understand why Black Americans hate themselves so much until recently (in lieu of my research). After the end of slavery American media started an assault on all Black Americans. This involved the segregation, racial steryotyping, and murdering of Blacks. In particular the Black male suffered the greatest. The majority of Black targeted racial sterytypes were aimed at breaking the Black man. The Nigger, the Coon, the Brute, the Nat, the Tom, and the Golliwog all served to limit and marginalize black men. Black men were (and largley still are) seen as lazy, unintelligent, animalistic, and hate-filled. If they are not Whites and Blacks alike will label you a Tom. Someone who wants to desperately please Whites or to be distant from what it is to be Black. These stereotypes have destroyed the will of Black men in America and in turn destroyed the Black family. The Black marriage follows and children after that.

It is a fact that White man with a criminal record will be picked for a job faster than a Black man with no criminal record (see the Princeton research link below for the details). Black women are the most trampled upon demographic in the United States. Black children receive the poorest educations. This is backed by having fewer qualified teachers, older text books, more crowded classrooms, and worst school conditions than their White counterparts. My point is that Black people as a whole have almost nothing in America. Nothing but faith. Faith has allowed my people hope. Hope to be treated equally. That is virtually the only thing left in the Black community that is positive. I am not saying that there are no successful Blacks or that there are no good Black neighborhoods but from a broad perspective, Blacks situations have changed very little since 1964. Until Blacks are empowered in the same way that Whites and Asians are in this country (and in the next 10 years Latinos), Black faith will remain unbreakable. "The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." It breaks my heart that this full quote rings so true about my people. That is why it is my signature. I know this is a long winded post. Thanks to anyone who made it to the bottom but I figured I should just give all my thoughts on the subject while I was already started. I will leave some very interesting links that I hope some of you will check out. Feel free to tell me what you think.

http://paa2005.princeton.edu/download.a ... onId=50874 (this is really good stuff. This is in the "liberal" part of New York that this experiment was conducted)

http://www.ferris.edu/htmls/news/jimcrow/menu.htm (read all about the racial stereotypes that were drilled into the minds of American's since the radio era. You will be surprised how many of these concoctions are still believed today and wholly based on lies.)

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm a Baptist atheist.

[humblesmurph]

Yes, this is what I would like to discuss.  I'm not trying to sound like a fundie or anything, but is it common for people to avoid coming to conclusions until they see a scientific study?  I hope I'm wording this correctly.  I'm not trying to pick a fight with you.

Doe the fact that Wikipedia states that blacks generally are more religious than whites and Asians in the US count as more conclusive evidence than personal experience?

Like I said, I could very well be wrong. Do you have a link to that page?

My question wasn't about rightness or wrongness.  My question was about the value of certain sources.  

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

it's the same link shown above.

[keith2004]

I am a Black atheist. I have actually been contemplating about this topic myself lately. I am currently doing research to write a book about black faith in America. I grew up as a Muslim but since an overwhelming majority of Blacks are some form of Christian, I was always aware of the deep religious roots of my people. During my research I have found that Blacks tend to be the most dogmatically religious group in America. Black people go to church more, prey more, and consider God a very important part of their lives. I had to deal with being grilled about the nature of my beliefs when I was growing up often. Black Christians often looked down on me. In that way they set me down my path to intellectual and spiritual freedom. They made me question why I was a Muslim (especially considering I knew virtually nothing about the religion at the age of 16). After I saw first hand how Muslim women are treated I decided it was not for me because in my eyes a religion is responsible for the culture that springs up around it as well.

It is not enough to just say, "Oh, well we don't teach that. That is just a poor interpretation." Bullshit. So after that I tried to be a Catholic but it always threw me off because the guy who headed the choir was clearly gay and looked just like Bob Vila. I can remember when I got really critical of Christianity and having almost no one to answer my burning questions. When I was a Muslim, one girl in particular (who was a very devout Christian) told me that I was going to hell, in so many words. I can remember forming my first unanswerable question. If I have never heard of your religion and died would I still go to hell? I have never gotten a satifactory answer for this question yet. In a religious conversation, before I fully educated myself to the entire argument, this was my major trump card. Simply put, most Christians either do not know or understand that it is very wicked to send someone to eternal damnation because of their unwilling ignorance to your superstition. I asked my mom that same question and she told me that God could do what ever the hell he wanted

I think your right on with the reasons why Blacks are more dogmatic, its embeded so deep in the culture that many would never think to question it

[George]

http://www.ferris.edu/htmls/news/jimcrow/menu.htm (read all about the racial stereotypes that were drilled into the minds of American's since the radio era. You will be surprised how many of these concoctions are still believed today and wholly based on lies.)

What an interesting site, a lot of the racist cartoons I remember seeing as a child and not even realizing they were racist. Similarly I only recently found out the origins of the childhood rhyme 'eenie meenie miney mo catch a tigger by its toe'
I can't begin to imagine how being on the recieving end of this sort of thing must have felt for black kids growing up. Racism is an ugly thing.

[Sophus]

Yes, this is what I would like to discuss.  I'm not trying to sound like a fundie or anything, but is it common for people to avoid coming to conclusions until they see a scientific study?  I hope I'm wording this correctly.  I'm not trying to pick a fight with you.

Doe the fact that Wikipedia states that blacks generally are more religious than whites and Asians in the US count as more conclusive evidence than personal experience?

Like I said, I could very well be wrong. Do you have a link to that page?

My question wasn't about rightness or wrongness.  My question was about the value of certain sources.  

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

it's the same link shown above.

I'd say Dr. Barry Alexander Kosmin, and Ariela Keysar are valid sources. I'll concede here.

Wikipedia alone isn't all that reliable but their sources are often good.  

[Intercourseman72]

To answer the topical question with another question; "would you be more compelled to remain religious if you went to a black church as opposed to a white church?"

I don't mean to imply that because we perceive black churches as being more entertaining that they will be more religious than other groups because of such. It's just that the culture of black people in America has built internal, separate cultures upon a very strong, fervent foundation of religion. As far as I can tell, radicalaggrivation has by far the most insightful post on this topic so far. I can't comment on why it is that black Americans tend to be more religious than other groups. All I would have to say is that black people if anything should feel more compelled to denounce Christianity given how powerful slave holders used it to justify such a practice and how it was deliberately imposed onto incoming slaves from Africa as well as their posterity.

The question I would like to have answered is that "do black people in the US and in America ever consider Christianity to be a remnant of external imposition onto them?" How many black people see Christianity as something forced upon them and their ancestors rather than something they as a group chose for themselves?

The black culture in the US is so strongly built upon religion and yet I can't see how it would not be seen as something denounce due to its role in oppressing black people throughout the centuries. Do they for some reason see it as 'their own' and that's it's separate from white ritualization of Christianity? I honestly have no clue and would like to know more.

[Dancing Badger]

Are there any...Jewish Atheists?

Me. Also a large majority of my Jewish friends who I grew up with. None of them are interested enough to participate in an atheist forum - they just don't have any belief in a god. The community of friends I am talking about are all educated to graduate level, incidentally. The majority of my friends from outside the Jewish community, who are mostly white and from a C of E background, are also non-believers.

I say it that way because Judaism seems to be an ethnicity/religion/lifestyle.  I have a friend who does not go to temple, does not believe in god, but still participates in 'The Tribe' functions as he calls it.

Yes, I can relate to this. I participate in "The Tribe" functions (great phrase!) to the extent that it keeps my wife happy (she's observant) - so I take part in family functions insofar as I turn up, but I don't take any part in ceremonies, other than to keep politely quiet whilst others are doing what they do.

For many people, Judaism is a religion more of doing than believing. People attend services, observe the holy days and keep a kosher diet without really giving much thought to why or to what it means or represents - what seems to drive it is the cultural traditions more than any belief system. I think that's healthier on balance than buying into the myth, but it does depend on what the traditions are that are being preserved.

My non-Jewish friends who are atheist mostly don't observe anything, unless you regard exchanging Christmas cards as a religious observance. Then again, I exchange Christmas cards.

Maybe to blacks, Christianity is like Judaism in that respect...that it is their ethnic/cultural duty to participate.

That's an interesting question that perhaps those in the black community can answer, for themselves at least - from what I read here it seems like there's at least an element of that. However, I do observe something similar with a friend at work who is Hindu. Periodically he comes into the office and announces that he's fasting, and can't eat meat for a week, or his hands are painted with henna, or he's wearing coloured cords on his wrist. I always ask him why (because I'm interested) and he never knows. He doesn't actually care why, as far as I can tell. He just does it because it's what he's always done, and it's what his family does and has always done. That doesn't seem like a very good reason to me, but as the practises he observes are not remotely harmful it's not something I'd challenge. Still, it's a potentially dangerous mindset, I think.

I also work with a Young Earth Creationist, a well educated, intelligent, middle-aged, white, working class man, with a degree in chemistry. He doesn't seem to particularly have any observances (other than making the occasional disparaging remark about gay people, which generally leads to some dispute). His religion is very much about what he believes, rather than what he does. He's more than happy to debate - we've done the flood, and dinosaurs, and evolution and of course his position is unshakeable in the face of any or all arguments.

I do find his point of view both more scary and more difficult to understand than those who observe but don't have a strong belief.

[Ã¥scertain]

It used to be annoying (socially) being a black atheist, but now I think the biggest problem is dating.  It's tough out there for a black atheist male.

you sound retarded at times. Are you?  

[Tank]

It used to be annoying (socially) being a black atheist, but now I think the biggest problem is dating.  It's tough out there for a black atheist male.

you sound retarded at times. Are you?  

How wude! As Jar Jar Binks would say. Seriously that's really not the sort of comment we have come to expect from members here. What on earth were you thinking when you wrote it?