Hey

[Number_Six]

Hi all, I'm a student from London and I'm a Christian.

I think many people get a distorted view of what Christianity and religion is from acts people have done in the name of God in the past, and the political angle that certain extremists take in the present. Many atheists also claim that their belief (or non-belief) system is more 'rational'.

Yet I think one of the central tenets of Christianity is the very rationality of the faith that is often called into question. Of the sevenly heavenly virtues that I believe all Christians should live by, one of them is wisdom. Whilst, according to Catholics/ Anglicans/ Lutherans, of the seven gifts the Holy Spirit gives believers are; wisdom, understanding, knowledge, and good judgment.

I've joined this forum not in a vain attempt to convert people, but to show the aspects of religion that are easy to ignore in our polarized world. Instead I think that only through free discussion between those of differing viewpoints can all of us better know the truth.

[SteveS]

Hello Number_Six - welcome to the forum.  I believe I'm capable of holding a polite discussion with just about anyone - feel free to "try me out".  Cheers!

[rlrose328]

Welcome!  I hope to read much more from you.  

[tigerlily46514]

"Wisdom, understanding, knowledge and good judgement"..i'm for all of those things!  Welcome!

[Amor Fati]

Welcome.

[Ninja Donkey]

greetings, salutations, and welcome

[McQ]

Hi all, I'm a student from London and I'm a Christian.

I think many people get a distorted view of what Christianity and religion is from acts people have done in the name of God in the past, and the political angle that certain extremists take in the present. Many atheists also claim that their belief (or non-belief) system is more 'rational'.

Yet I think one of the central tenets of Christianity is the very rationality of the faith that is often called into question. Of the sevenly heavenly virtues that I believe all Christians should live by, one of them is wisdom. Whilst, according to Catholics/ Anglicans/ Lutherans, of the seven gifts the Holy Spirit gives believers are; wisdom, understanding, knowledge, and good judgment.

I've joined this forum not in a vain attempt to convert people, but to show the aspects of religion that are easy to ignore in our polarized world. Instead I think that only through free discussion between those of differing viewpoints can all of us better know the truth.

Welcome Number Six. Thanks for the introduction. While I am of the opinion that not believing in any god is a more rational option than believing in one, I don't translate that to meaning believers are less intelligent or necessarily less rational acting human beings. At least, not in a general sense.

However, the fundamentalist of any religion is someone who is by definition, acting in less than a rational manner. And his or her beliefs are quite irrational.

Also want to make it very clear that there are many here who are well aware of and intimately familiar with christianity. Some are/were christians of various denominations. Catholic, baptists, all kinds. So the "distorted" view may come from experience directly, not some misinformed view of christians.

Really, though, how are people supposed to get their "view" of christians, anyway? By listening to their words, or by seeing their actions? You have to go by their actions.

[MommaSquid]

Believers are welcome here at HAF, so welcome to you Number Six.

Also want to make it very clear that there are many here who are well aware of and intimately familiar with christianity. Some are/were christians of various denominations. Catholic, baptists, all kinds. So the "distorted" view may come from experience directly, not some misinformed view of christians.

As a former Catholic, I second what McQ stated above.  I don't believe my view of religion is distorted...I've seen it from both sides and my view is plenty clear from an atheistic standpoint.  The blinders are off.

[Ninja Donkey]

also agreed.  I am a former protestant, and having been raised that way, I still hold the morals and values.  But I'm able to utilize them without the need for a "supreme being"

[rlrose328]

Former Lutheran here... as close to Catholocism as you can get without the guilt.  I'd like to think my morals and values are part and parcel of who I am as a person and not just from my upbringing... I guess I'll never know for sure.  I've read many religious texts and I find them all to be as rational and credible as a book of Roman mythology.

[tigerlily46514]

As a recovering Catholic, from an extremely religious devout family, that contains nuns and priests all through it,(are you all shivering and glad you are not me right now!!! ha ha) i am pretty familiar with religion.  Not just Catholicism, but many others as well.
 i agree with McQ!!

I agree with Kerri there, i will never know for sure how the upbringing may have impacted my morals, yet i am aware of several of the 'values and morals' espoused by my childhood church were thrown out by my own sense of logic.

 I do feel much of my own internal compass is directed by reason and compassion and common sense and logic and experience, and on a good day, kindness, too!!          

 Like Ninja said, no god required.  If i veer from what my own mind tells me is right and wrong, ooh, i do know it!!  red alert, red alert, etc.  ha ha.  

I feel many religious people have 'distorted views' of their own doctrines.  So many swallowed it as children and have never ever regurgitated it up and reviewed it as reasoning adults.  So many are so surprised and register disbelief if you tell them things like the bible condones violence, genocide, infanticide, etc.  They tend to have distorted views, only partially aware of the truth.

  I am aware both of the side of religion  that is given out as one is indoctrinated into it (usually the only side known to many people of faith) and the other side....the comedy, the bloody hands, the hypocrisy, the unbelievable stuff i quit buying when i was still a child....  

Yeah, i liked "Cinderella" better as my favorite incredible story....


Well, hope you ever come back  to continue that quest for truth.... seems like religious people only stay one or two days, though........

[Whitney]

Welcome to the forum.

[Number_Six]

Also want to make it very clear that there are many here who are well aware of and intimately familiar with christianity. Some are/were christians of various denominations. Catholic, baptists, all kinds. So the "distorted" view may come from experience directly, not some misinformed view of christians.

My point was not to doubt the knowledge of people on this forum about Christianity, but to simply remind that Christianity is often poorly represented by Christians that get most exposure.

Really, though, how are people supposed to get their "view" of christians, anyway? By listening to their words, or by seeing their actions? You have to go by their actions.

Firstly, your question outlines how politics and religion can be closely linked. A liberal utilitarian might see the value of a religion by the consequences of the actions of it's adherents. Yet, as a conservative, I would see the value of a religion by how it changes the intentions of it's adherents.

Secondly I suggest that we are inclined to know more about the extremes of a few people's actions (that are, more often than not, negative) than the moderate actions of the many (that are often positive.)

[SteveS]

Hi Number_Six, while I take your point, consider the Islamic religion in the middle east.  Although many moderate Islamics will not actually execute people or bomb buildings, they don't really cry out against it in the manner that the non-Muslims do, right?  So, in some ways, the actions of the moderates can at times support the actions of the extremists - if through no other method than providing an environment that allows them to cultivate.  I just think this is something to be aware of, is all.  Its like they're saying "while I would never do this personally, the West is getting what it deserves...."

On a personal, one-to-one level, I am clearly capable of distinguishing the actions of the moderates from those of the extremists.