How do Athiests explain prophecies that have been fufilled?

[Tanker]

The easiest way I know to make a prophecy come "true" is to write or tell the prophacy after the event. Think of it a plague of locusts comes through "well, you should have listened to me my god prophasied it. See look right here our god said it first and don't mind that wet ink." Or think of the priest Class from many coultures. They were the keepers of the seasons and the skys they had a good Knowledge of what would be in the sky where and when. Now you see that soon the the Moon will be in a direct line up between the Earth and the Sun. You can now plan for a ceremony, how did you know? "the gods told you". You could even make it seem as though you can make the sun disapear on your command if you wanted to inspire fear. I think P.T. Barrum said it best "there's a sucker born every minute", and the gullible are going to get tricked.


Not too hard to trick an ignorant, trusting and gullible mind. Especially when many religious people want to see these things and have no reason to doubt their 'mouth of god'.

[Tank]

The Texas Sharp Shooter Fallacy is related to spotting prophecies that have been fulfilled.

[Davin]

Ezekiel 36:24,33-35 wrote:
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

33) Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

34) And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

35) And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

This same passage is used by the Afrikaners in South Africa to claim that they are God's chosen people.  People from all over the world (well, actually only Holland and France (the huguenots, fleeing persecution in France)) came here.  Nevertheless, they see that as being taken from among the heathen, gathered out of all countries, and brought into their own land, SOuth Africa.  They also see the fact that after colonisation, South Africa was transformed into an almost industrialised nation by the 20th century (minor details like apartheid put aside for the moment) as fulfilment of a land that was once desolate that became like the garden of Eden.

This can of course also apply to other countries populated by immigrants, like all of the Americas and Australia and New Zealand.

It's good for them to skip the parts about no more famines isn't it? I guess reading all the verses in order is just taking it out of context...

[Parsifal]

Ezekiel 36:24,33-35 wrote:
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

33) Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

34) And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

35) And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

This same passage is used by the Afrikaners in South Africa to claim that they are God's chosen people.  People from all over the world (well, actually only Holland and France (the huguenots, fleeing persecution in France)) came here.  Nevertheless, they see that as being taken from among the heathen, gathered out of all countries, and brought into their own land, SOuth Africa.  They also see the fact that after colonisation, South Africa was transformed into an almost industrialised nation by the 20th century (minor details like apartheid put aside for the moment) as fulfilment of a land that was once desolate that became like the garden of Eden.

This can of course also apply to other countries populated by immigrants, like all of the Americas and Australia and New Zealand.

It's good for them to skip the parts about no more famines isn't it? I guess reading all the verses in order is just taking it out of context...

But that is religion for you.  If you don't pick and choose the bits you want, you will never be able to use the Bible as authority for anything.

[deekayfry]

Prophecy?

Saying, 2010, that the Cubs will win the world series in 2012, 2014, and the Mets in 2013, and Cleveland Indians in 2015 and it actually happening, spot on.  Yeah buddy that's a fulfilled prophecy.

Saying that there will be war, disease, famine, epidemics, earthquakes?

Not so much...

[Asmodean]

I use the following kind of example usually:

"On the twenty-first day of October, as the sun passes its zenith over West Nile, a rock from the sky shall come down and smash into a fisherman's hut, wiping out the entire village while at it."

This prophecy is NOT fulfilled if one or any combination of the following conditions are true:

a) It did NOT happen on the 21st by specified calendar. If no calendar is specified, it's the 21st by whatever the prophet used.
b) It did not happen in October, see a)
c) It did not happen within one hour of noon (West Nile time)
d) It was clearly not a rock (An aircraft, for instance)
e) It did not hit the hut
f) the hut did not belong to anyone who could be considered a fisherman
g) the willage was not wiped out (At least one house still standing)

Now, if all conditions set in the prophecy were true, it would be fulfilled. But then it would, in ways of prophecies, be pointlessly vague, self-fulfilling or read "between the lines" (Any prophecy formulated as a metaphor is useless)

[The Magic Pudding]

How do theists explain continued faith after prophecies go unfulfilled?

Oh forget I asked, I really don't want to know.

[Parsifal]

How do theists explain continued faith after prophecies go unfulfilled?

Oh forget I asked, I really don't want to know.

No, I'd like that question answered.

[The Magic Pudding]

How do theists explain continued faith after prophecies go unfulfilled?

Oh forget I asked, I really don't want to know.

No, I'd like that question answered.

No I urge you to reconsider.
Believers will look at you with their stoner faces and explain how another layer has been laid on their wondrous system of faith.  
You will feel better if you don't know, believe me.

[Parsifal]

How do theists explain continued faith after prophecies go unfulfilled?

Oh forget I asked, I really don't want to know.

No, I'd like that question answered.

No I urge you to reconsider.
Believers will look at you with their stoner faces and explain how another layer has been laid on their wondrous system of faith.  
You will feel better if you don't know, believe me.

Hmmm, yeah, you're right.  But still, their contorted reasoning is always so comical.

[PoopShoot]

One example I can think of is the Bible's description of the coming of the Antichrist in Revelations as a political leader who will have great influence over the world and will do certain things.  Some people claim this prophecy is fulfilled in Obama, but it just as easily could describe a dozen other politicians (Hitler, anyone?).

Not only can it describe any number of world leaders, it has been used to describe any number of leaders with which religious clergy has disagreed.  I once read a book recommended by a local Seventh-Day Adventist church in Sacramento, Ca that said the antichrist was the Pope.  I've read another that claimed it to be C.T Russell (the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses) and any number of presidents of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society after him.  Jehovah's Wtinesses claim him to be anyone who supports secular governments over their brand of theocracy.  All in all, that particular prophecy can't be fulfilled, as it's too vague to be meaningful.  I'd even say that principle applies to all of Revelation.

Ezekiel 36:24,33-35

This same passage is used by the Afrikaners in South Africa to claim that they are God's chosen people.

They're not alone in that.  Every christian group I've ever met who were not integrated mainstream groups use the same scripture to make the same claim.

[Davin]

No, I'd like that question answered.

One reason is cognitive dissonance, I know wikipedia isn't the most trustworthy source, however this is like a review of a book (which is quiet good) and the references cited are good too, if you can get your hands on some of them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails

[PoopShoot]

No, I'd like that question answered.

One reason is cognitive dissonance, I know wikipedia is the most trustworthy source, however this is like a review of a book (which is quiet good) and the references cited are good too, if you can get your hands on some of them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails

The easiest and most common iteration of it is "we're just people".  It's funny, though, because before the prophecy fails, they're infallible due to the holy spirit's influence.  Theism relies on putting wheels on their goalposts, so they can be moved in a pinch.

[karadan]

If the bible had a passage in it which said:

On september the 11th, 2001, two American Airlines passenger jets will hit both the World Trade centre towers in New York, leading to their collapse and a third plane will be flown into the Pentagon. 3000 people will die at the hands of Islamic terrorists.

I'd totally give the bible credence if it said that. These so-called prophecies are deliberately vague for obvious reasons.

[PoopShoot]

The problem with that is it's TOO specific and subject to self-fulfillment.  The prophecies about Jesus and later fulfillment of them would be evidence to me, providing that there were evidence for Jesus AND fulfillment of those prophecies outside of the bible.  As is, they're only evidence that the writers of the bible wanted to SAY that the prophecies were fulfilled.