France's burqa ban - justified or infringement of freedom?

[Big Mac]

Yeah, I have no argument with requiring the removal of the burqa in places like airports, banks, and government buildings, and for law enforcement/ID purposes.  But the government has no business dictating religious practice that harms no one except perhaps the practitioner, by my lights.  

And not all Muslim women in the West chose to emigrate here.  Many were brought to the West as children, or were fleeing persecution in their homeland, as in Ali's case.

Sorry but I could care less about their problems. They came here, they need to become Americans. Refugees have a soft spot in my heart but I'm not a total softie about it. Why would any woman want to wear something that degrades them? I always want to start yelling at them when I see them wear it all covered up head to toe. It's disgusting.

[Asmodean]

I didn't clarify enough. Out and about on the streets, sure you can wear your stupid garbage bag or whatever the hell it is.

Public services, to hell with it, take the damn thing off or don't work for the government.

Misunderstanding clarified.

I think the ban should apply to any customer service profession though, not just the government ones. From cops to librarians to convenience store cashiers to burger flippers to taxi drivers. What an architect wears in his/her office or a software designer or a phone salesman, I care not.

[Big Mac]

I think the ban should apply to any customer service profession though, not just the government ones. From cops to librarians to convenience store cashiers to burger flippers to taxi drivers. What an architect wears in his/her office or a software designer or a phone salesman, I care not.

Completely agree. Honestly it's hilarious to watch people try to justify it on them wearing it for photo IDs. I laugh when PC types start going off about how they have a right to wear it all the time.

[Tank]

I think the ban should apply to any customer service profession though, not just the government ones. From cops to librarians to convenience store cashiers to burger flippers to taxi drivers. What an architect wears in his/her office or a software designer or a phone salesman, I care not.

Completely agree. Honestly it's hilarious to watch people try to justify it on them wearing it for photo IDs. I laugh when PC types start going off about how they have a right to wear it all the time.

I agree. The full veil is not an excuse for effective anonymity in circumstances where security and accurate identification is required.

In the UK some shopping malls don't allow people to wear baseball caps or 'hoodies' with their hoods up as these obscure people's faces from security cameras. I've not seen an example yet where a veil wearing female has been asked to remove her veil though.

[Big Mac]

In the UK some shopping malls don't allow people to wear baseball caps or 'hoodies' with their hoods up as these obscure people's faces from security cameras. I've not seen an example yet where a veil wearing female has been asked to remove her veil though.

That wouldn't fly here. They'd tell them to take it off and if they protest they'd just say they have to leave. Europe is a little coddling I guess.

[Asmodean]

In the UK some shopping malls don't allow people to wear baseball caps or 'hoodies' with their hoods up as these obscure people's faces from security cameras. I've not seen an example yet where a veil wearing female has been asked to remove her veil though.

I wish my government had some balls to infringe on "freedom of religion" a little... After all, in the name of the named freedom, people are doing things that have nothing to do with their religion, but are in stead motivated by tradition or personal objectives.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Sorry but I could care less about their problems. They came here, they need to become Americans. Refugees have a soft spot in my heart but I'm not a total softie about it. Why would any woman want to wear something that degrades them? I always want to start yelling at them when I see them wear it all covered up head to toe. It's disgusting.

It has apparently escaped your notice that the country under discussion is France, and not America.

[epepke]

Sorry but I could care less about their problems. They came here, they need to become Americans. Refugees have a soft spot in my heart but I'm not a total softie about it. Why would any woman want to wear something that degrades them? I always want to start yelling at them when I see them wear it all covered up head to toe. It's disgusting.

It has apparently escaped your notice that the country under discussion is France, and not America.

It's reasonable, however, to compare the American way of doing things with French or even European.  Especially as Americans get hammered all the time.

In Florida, I don't think there would ever be a burqa ban.  I see women wearing Burqas at Disney, even.  But try to wear it for a driver's license, and we have a tendency to say, "How about 'no,' and by the way, fuck you."  It seems to work a bit better than the struggle between appeasement and having a secular society that France tends to go through.

[Tank]

In the UK some shopping malls don't allow people to wear baseball caps or 'hoodies' with their hoods up as these obscure people's faces from security cameras. I've not seen an example yet where a veil wearing female has been asked to remove her veil though.

That wouldn't fly here. They'd tell them to take it off and if they protest they'd just say they have to leave. Europe is a little coddling I guess.

Absolutely, we have grown up  

[Thumpalumpacus]

Sorry but I could care less about their problems. They came here, they need to become Americans. Refugees have a soft spot in my heart but I'm not a total softie about it. Why would any woman want to wear something that degrades them? I always want to start yelling at them when I see them wear it all covered up head to toe. It's disgusting.

It has apparently escaped your notice that the country under discussion is France, and not America.

It's reasonable, however, to compare the American way of doing things with French or even European.  Especially as Americans get hammered all the time.

In Florida, I don't think there would ever be a burqa ban.  I see women wearing Burqas at Disney, even.  But try to wear it for a driver's license, and we have a tendency to say, "How about 'no,' and by the way, fuck you."  It seems to work a bit better than the struggle between appeasement and having a secular society that France tends to go through.

I have no problem with this, and,indeed, the comparison is useful.  But the idea that you can expand someone's freedom by legislating what they can and can't wear is obviously silly, on its face.

It's funny that BM would limit freedom in this thread, and yet bemoan its loss in another.

[Big Mac]

In the UK some shopping malls don't allow people to wear baseball caps or 'hoodies' with their hoods up as these obscure people's faces from security cameras. I've not seen an example yet where a veil wearing female has been asked to remove her veil though.

That wouldn't fly here. They'd tell them to take it off and if they protest they'd just say they have to leave. Europe is a little coddling I guess.

Absolutely, we have grown up  

I don't wanna grow up...I'm a Toys R Us kid. There's a million muslims that I can bomb with.