How do Athiests explain prophecies that have been fufilled?

[xcyper33]

Speaking broadly here. Any 'alledged' prophecy that has been fufilled.

[Sophus]

Well, after reading a prophecy you can write down whatever you want to fulfill it. There's nothing that suggests this isn't what was done with the Bible.

[Asmodean]

In the vast majority of cases, th "fulfillment" is not actually there. The details are wrong or the entire thing depends on reading into words what they do not say or the prophecy is so vague or general that it's just pointless.

The rest are coincidental (And the vast majority of those fall under the "general" cathegory)

[Tank]

Speaking broadly here. Any 'alledged' prophecy that has been fufilled.

Would you like to provide an example of a fulfilled prophecy please.

[Asmodean]

Would you like to provide an example of a fulfilled prophecy please.

That, by the way, was what I was saying in different words

[Davin]

Well, after reading a prophecy you can write down whatever you want to fulfill it. There's nothing that suggests this isn't what was done with the Bible.

In the vast majority of cases, th "fulfillment" is not actually there. The details are wrong or the entire thing depends on reading into words what they do not say or the prophecy is so vague or general that it's just pointless.

The rest are coincidental (And the vast majority of those fall under the "general" cathegory)

Speaking broadly here. Any 'alledged' prophecy that has been fufilled.

Would you like to provide an example of a fulfilled prophecy please.

Exactly, without getting into specific examples, all the argument is going to come to are broad assertions: prophecies have been fulfilled vs. no they haven't.

We have to get down to the good stuff where the broad assertions come from; the good stuff being specific prophecies.

[philosoraptor]

There's a lot to be said about the power of suggestion.  People will read what they want into an individual situation and claim that a prophecy has been fulfilled according to some written text when really, that's just their own interpretation of something that happened.

One example I can think of is the Bible's description of the coming of the Antichrist in Revelations as a political leader who will have great influence over the world and will do certain things.  Some people claim this prophecy is fulfilled in Obama, but it just as easily could describe a dozen other politicians (Hitler, anyone?).  People just want to see it that way because it gives them an excuse to use religion as fodder for hate and bigotry.

[xcyper33]

A very popular prophecy is about Israel being rebuilt again or something along those lines. Anyone know where I'm getting at?

[SSY]

Of course, the problem with the Israel one, is the fact that the prophecy itself can influence the behaviour of the people who have the power to fulfil it.

[deekayfry]

What is there to explain?

[Sophus]

Of course, the problem with the Israel one, is the fact that the prophecy itself can influence the behaviour of the people who have the power to fulfil it.

All hail, Macbeth! hail to thee, Thane of Cawdor! All hail, Macbeth! that shalt be king hereafter.

[xcyper33]

Of course, the problem with the Israel one, is the fact that the prophecy itself can influence the behaviour of the people who have the power to fulfil it.

Wow...never looked at it that way.

[epepke]

Many prophesies are vague.  This applies to things like Nostradamus as well as the Bible.

So long ago I came up with the best prophesy of all time.

A great thing shall fall, and a small thing shall rise to greatness.
It shall happen in a year with one of those digits with round bits at the end.
Or maybe the year after.

I think that pretty much covers it.

[Davin]

Of course, the problem with the Israel one, is the fact that the prophecy itself can influence the behaviour of the people who have the power to fulfil it.

Another problem with the prophecy is that it happened long after the prophesied time frame... I'll look it up real quick.

4) Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.

 5) For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

 6) And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

So they were kind of late on that, it was much longer than 430 years from Ezekiel to 1948.

The other one cited is:

24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

33) Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

 34) And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

 35) And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

One problem with this one is the missing verses that explained something that didn't happen:

25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

 26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

 27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

 29) I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

 30) And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

 31) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

 32) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Being as they have suffered from some famines in the last 62 years, the prophecy had not been fulfilled... yet.

Of course there are other problems with prophecies so vague, is that people can keep putting the prophecy off until it is "fulfilled" because hey, it didn't say exactly when it would happen right? So maybe Israel will lose their kingdom once more and the next time they get it back is the actual event prophesied...

[Parsifal]

Ezekiel 36:24,33-35 wrote:
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

33) Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

34) And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

35) And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

This same passage is used by the Afrikaners in South Africa to claim that they are God's chosen people.  People from all over the world (well, actually only Holland and France (the huguenots, fleeing persecution in France)) came here.  Nevertheless, they see that as being taken from among the heathen, gathered out of all countries, and brought into their own land, SOuth Africa.  They also see the fact that after colonisation, South Africa was transformed into an almost industrialised nation by the 20th century (minor details like apartheid put aside for the moment) as fulfilment of a land that was once desolate that became like the garden of Eden.

This can of course also apply to other countries populated by immigrants, like all of the Americas and Australia and New Zealand.