Value of a human life?

[freethinker329]

Hi all, first time poster here. I know that I won't get a concensus on this, but I'd just like to get a feel for some opinions from a secular point of view. So what is a human life worth? Is it worth more than the life of a dog, for example?

I came upon this line of thinking after listening to the debate between Thunderf00t and Ray Comfort, where Ray asked TF whether he would save the life of his worst enemy or his dog if they were both drowning. TF said he would probably save his dog. This gave me some pause. I can see how this might be a vulnerable area for an atheist defense, and how a creationist critique such as this could garner support. Is there an inherent "sanctity" to a human life, and if so, how would we quantify or describe such an attribute? Any other input along these lines is welcome.

[Davin]

Hi all, first time poster here. I know that I won't get a concensus on this, but I'd just like to get a feel for some opinions from a secular point of view. So what is a human life worth? Is it worth more than the life of a dog, for example?

I came upon this line of thinking after listening to the debate between Thunderf00t and Ray Comfort, where Ray asked TF whether he would save the life of his worst enemy or his dog if they were both drowning. TF said he would probably save his dog. This gave me some pause. I can see how this might be a vulnerable area for an atheist defense, and how a creationist critique such as this could garner support. Is there an inherent "sanctity" to a human life, and if so, how would we quantify or describe such an attribute? Any other input along these lines is welcome.

Would you save a man who you know does bad things like killing people or would you save your dog? I would save my dog. I think that my dogs are way more valuable than say a serial killer and/or rapist. The human does a lot of damage while the dog does good.

I don't think that people are in a separate category to animals, so I can't really say that all people are more valuable than all other animals.

[Asmodean]

Mathematically, a life is worth the cost of taking it OR the cost of giving it birth and maintaining it for its (natural) duration.

That is a bit grim a standpoint to subscribe to though, so philosophically, a life is worth another life in my opinion. A human life is worth as much as the life of another human. Some things can increase or decrease that value though - I see a scientist's or a teacher's life as of more worth than that of a life-sentenced prisoner. That does not mean, however, that family and friends of the said prisoner should not value him more than a random scientist guy. So I guess what I am saying is that the value of human life is highly subjective and depends on who you are, whos life you are trying to put a price tag on and a multitude of other factors.

[pinkocommie]

Hi all, first time poster here. I know that I won't get a concensus on this, but I'd just like to get a feel for some opinions from a secular point of view. So what is a human life worth? Is it worth more than the life of a dog, for example?

I came upon this line of thinking after listening to the debate between Thunderf00t and Ray Comfort, where Ray asked TF whether he would save the life of his worst enemy or his dog if they were both drowning. TF said he would probably save his dog. This gave me some pause. I can see how this might be a vulnerable area for an atheist defense, and how a creationist critique such as this could garner support. Is there an inherent "sanctity" to a human life, and if so, how would we quantify or describe such an attribute? Any other input along these lines is welcome.

Would you save a man who you know does bad things like killing people or would you save your dog? I would save my dog. I think that my dogs are way more valuable than say a serial killer and/or rapist. The human does a lot of damage while the dog does good.

I don't think that people are in a separate category to animals, so I can't really say that all people are more valuable than all other animals.

I agree with this.  I would probably save whichever creature seemed more worth saving and I can imagine several instances where a dog would be a more worthy entity to save than a person.  Though that's not to say that I value all dogs and all people the same - if it was the most awesome dog ever and the most awesome person ever, I would probably save the person over the dog.  But I'd feel really sad about it.

[Ihateusernames]

Is there an inherent "sanctity" to a human life... hmm...  If you are really interested in this topic you really only have two choices... Objective morality (which inevitably leads back to a deistic/theistic..etc based morality)  or ethical nihilism (The view atheistic thought will arrive at if cared to it's conclusions.)

There really is no way around it.  Humans either have worth through something/one endowing them with worth (theism/deism...etc), or they are just a complex accidental bunch of elements splushed together like every other material thing (atheism).  

Ethical Nihilistically speaking, if you take an axe and split a rock in two or if you take that axe and split someone else's head in two (even if they are a saint) it really isn't that much difference--morality is fictional.   So in answer to your question, atheistically speaking, I'd probably think about saving the horrible person, so I could torture them for enjoyment before feeding them to my new dog as a punishment for putting me in that situation in the first place.  Getting a new dog really isn't very hard afterall.

[Davin]

Is there an inherent "sanctity" to a human life... hmm...  If you are really interested in this topic you really only have two choices... Objective morality (which inevitably leads back to a deistic/theistic..etc based morality)  or ethical nihilism (The view atheistic thought will arrive at if cared to it's conclusions.)

There really is no way around it.  Humans either have worth through something/one endowing them with worth (theism/deism...etc), or they are just a complex accidental bunch of elements splushed together like every other material thing (atheism).  

Ethical Nihilistically speaking, if you take an axe and split a rock in two or if you take that axe and split someone else's head in two (even if they are a saint) it really isn't that much difference--morality is fictional.   So in answer to your question, atheistically speaking, I'd probably think about saving the horrible person, so I could torture them for enjoyment before feeding them to my new dog as a punishment for putting me in that situation in the first place.  Getting a new dog really isn't very hard afterall.

False Dichotomy. Try again.

[The Black Jester]

Is there an inherent "sanctity" to a human life... hmm... If you are really interested in this topic you really only have two choices... Objective morality (which inevitably leads back to a deistic/theistic..etc based morality) or ethical nihilism (The view atheistic thought will arrive at if cared to it's conclusions.)

There really is no way around it. Humans either have worth through something/one endowing them with worth (theism/deism...etc), or they are just a complex accidental bunch of elements splushed together like every other material thing (atheism).

Ethical Nihilistically speaking, if you take an axe and split a rock in two or if you take that axe and split someone else's head in two (even if they are a saint) it really isn't that much difference--morality is fictional. So in answer to your question, atheistically speaking, I'd probably think about saving the horrible person, so I could torture them for enjoyment before feeding them to my new dog as a punishment for putting me in that situation in the first place. Getting a new dog really isn't very hard afterall.

False Dichotomy. Try again.

 

Why on earth do nihilists insist theirs is the only alternative to superstitious drivel?  I thought Nietzsche, as well as many other modern thinkers, thoroughly rebuffed them.

[Davin]

Why on earth do nihilists insist theirs is the only alternative to superstitious drivel?  I thought Nietzsche, as well as many other modern thinkers, thoroughly rebuffed them.

I may have been too rude there looking back on it, let me clarify my specific problems with the whole statement:

"The view atheistic thought will  arrive at if [carried] to it's conclusions." is not a decent enough explanation to show that these two things are all there is. Because more than the two things you mentioned could exist it is a false dichotomy. The reason I reject the dichotomy is the same reason as something that was said in the very same post: "Humans [...] have worth through something/one endowing them with worth[.]" Humans can endow humans with worth. There is at least one other option to show that the dichotomy is a false one.

The nihilism or god argument is extremely flawed. Plus, if I need to explain to another person why disproving one or two things doesn't make the thing you posit automatically true... I dunno, I guess I'll do it again. Defining what is real isn't some boxing match where you put two ideas into a ring and the one who fights better is the true one. Logic doesn't work that way. There are always more than two sides to everything while there is only one reality. I imagine each view on reality as lines extending out from a center making out a circle and if one draws a line through the circle to create just two sides to an issue, they're being very disingenuous.

[i_am_i]

What is your life worth to you, what is its value, to you and you alone? That's how much all human life is worth, no more and no less.

[Tank]

What is your life worth to you, what is its value, to you and you alone? That's how much all human life is worth, no more and no less.

What about one's spouse or children? Don't they have an opinion worth hearing?

[freethinker329]

What is your life worth to you, what is its value, to you and you alone? That's how much all human life is worth, no more and no less.

This seems rather selfish. Also, take for example a small child who is not yet able to value his/her own life. Can you simply say that because someone is not able to value themselves, then they have no value? Obviously, their worth is projected onto them by their parents or others.

[i_am_i]

What is your life worth to you, what is its value, to you and you alone? That's how much all human life is worth, no more and no less.

This seems rather selfish. Also, take for example a small child who is not yet able to value his/her own life. Can you simply say that because someone is not able to value themselves, then they have no value? Obviously, their worth is projected onto them by their parents or others.

Because I place such value on my life I place that same value on all life. If I had children their lives would be as valuable to me as my own life is.

I value the lives of all those who are not capable of valuing their own lives, like babies or the mentally disabled for example. All life is valuable to me.

As to the question of who would I try to rescue, my enemy or my dog, I would try to rescue my enemy first. I mean, who wants a dog that can't swim?

[elliebean]

I think I understand what J is saying and I agree with it; that one values human life no more or less than one values one's own life, not that one is only as valuable as one's self-worth. If I've interpreted that correctly, I don't see anything wrong with that statement.

[Heretical Rants]

I'd save the enemy. My enemies are mostly good people.

Except for the enemies to humanity....

[i_am_i]

I think I understand what J is saying and I agree with it; that one values human life no more or less than one values one's own life, not that one is only as valuable as one's self-worth. If I've interpreted that correctly, I don't see anything wrong with that statement.

You have interpreted very well, Ms. Ellie. Thank you.

To answer freethinker329, yes it's selfish!

When you fall in love, when you really want a job that you know is perfect for you, when you sometimes would rather just be alone, that's selfish!

If you're in a burning building and you need to find a way to get yourself out, I guarantee that all you're going to be thinking about is getting yourself out. Selfish!

What good are you to anyone if you don't first and foremost value your own life, your own self?