An interesting note on the catholic Church

[Dongle]

Here's an interesting and informative look at the Catholic church by Louis CK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k
(link NSFW!)

[Davin]

It follows from the stats for the reasons given below.
In nearly every country of the world a government is appointed by the people of the country. The government based on the opinion of the people defines, a class of organization as charitable. That is they do not take any profit. Under this classification, all the catholic run places are charitable.

...

One collection is for the upkeep of the church (fancy cloths, food for cleargy,buidings etc)

Yes very charitable those fancy clothes.

One of the differences between a health care system that is non profit and one that is not is that in the case of the former it can take no profit, further the cost of the care given, in most cases even when paid is further subsidized by charitable donors. Also in the case of a charitable organization all accounts need to be transparent.

So by your definition, all an organization needs to do to be considered charitable by you is not take a profit? So failing companies that make their books public are charitable?

Now if there were no organization that were non-profit then the competition faced, by the for profit businesses, will be vastly reduced and will lead to a price hike.

That is so wrong and way off topic.

Further in nearly all catholic institutes in the case of study full scholarships are given to students that cannot afford it. In the same applies to medical care by way of subsidy.

How many full scholarships? How much subsidy? In short, provide some evidence to show how "charitable" the organization is. Do they help out one student out of the 2 million a year in their schools or do they help out 1% of the students?

[Sophus]

Oh wait! They can just write themselves some indulgences and then all is well again.

Now if the people giving this money don't have a problem with it why should any one else?

You're missing the point. The point was they will only donate a rag to wipe your ass so long as they have a golden toilet seat. That doesn't make them the best "charity".

[fdesilva]

It follows from the stats for the reasons given below.
In nearly every country of the world a government is appointed by the people of the country. The government based on the opinion of the people defines, a class of organization as charitable. That is they do not take any profit. Under this classification, all the catholic run places are charitable.

...

One collection is for the upkeep of the church (fancy cloths, food for cleargy,buidings etc)

Yes very charitable those fancy clothes.

One of the differences between a health care system that is non profit and one that is not is that in the case of the former it can take no profit, further the cost of the care given, in most cases even when paid is further subsidized by charitable donors. Also in the case of a charitable organization all accounts need to be transparent.

So by your definition, all an organization needs to do to be considered charitable by you is not take a profit? So failing companies that make their books public are charitable?

Now if there were no organization that were non-profit then the competition faced, by the for profit businesses, will be vastly reduced and will lead to a price hike.

That is so wrong and way off topic.

Further in nearly all catholic institutes in the case of study full scholarships are given to students that cannot afford it. In the same applies to medical care by way of subsidy.

How many full scholarships? How much subsidy? In short, provide some evidence to show how "charitable" the organization is. Do they help out one student out of the 2 million a year in their schools or do they help out 1% of the students?

I'llsee if I can find some info, However for now this might interest you
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2111966
Here is more
from  http://www.ncea.org/news/AnnualDataReport.asp

Tuition and Costs
 
Tuition fees paid by families constitute a portion of the actual per pupil expenses.  The average per pupil tuition in elementary schools is $3,383 which is approximately 62.2 % of actual costs per pupil of $5,436.  About 93% of elementary schools provide some form of tuition assistance.  
 
The secondary mean freshman tuition is $8,182 which is approximately 80.0% of actual costs per pupil of $10,228.  About 97% of secondary schools provide some form of tuition assistance.
 
The difference between the per pupil cost and the tuition charged is obtained in many ways, primarily through direct subsidy from parish, diocesan or religious congregation resources and from multi-faceted development programs and fund-raising activities.
 
EXHIBIT 24
Average Tuition and Per Pupil Costs
Elementary
Mean parish school tuition:              $3,383.              Per pupil cost:  $5,436.
 
Secondary
Mean freshman tuition:                    $8,182              Per pupil cost:  $10,228
 
The average public school per pupil cost of $9,683, as reported by the National Center for Education Statistics, includes both elementary and secondary schools. (On average, secondary school costs are higher than elementary, but are not reported separately.)
Based on the public school cost, Catholic schools provide a 20.5 billion dollars a year savings for the nation.

[pinkocommie]

That's still not charity.  A company may save the nation a certain amount of money - that doesn't make them a charity.  By your logic, Microsoft for instance would be considered a charity if they offered to pay for a certain percentage of school costs that might otherwise be paid for by tax money.  That can't actually be your argument, right?  

Regardless, it certainly doesn't somehow cancel out the church covering up rampant pedophilia.

[Davin]

I'llsee if I can find some info, However for now this might interest you

Hmm, I guess I will look over those links... meanwhile look at these random links while I find the data that supports my argument AFTER I stated my conclusion....

Dancing Waffles

Pope May Eat Frogs

The Pope Forgives the Molested Children

Has the Vatican Been Molesting Children Since it Began?

Enjoy the random links that also have nothing to do with what we were talking about. The problem here is that instead of researching the data to come to a conclusion, you've come to a conclusion and are now trying to find the data... that matches your conclusion. It is known as confirmation bias, and while this may work wonders for religion, it's worthless to rationally minded people.

[fdesilva]

I'llsee if I can find some info, However for now this might interest you

Hmm, I guess I will look over those links... meanwhile look at these random links while I find the data that supports my argument AFTER I stated my conclusion....

Dancing Waffles

Pope May Eat Frogs

The Pope Forgives the Molested Children

Has the Vatican Been Molesting Children Since it Began?

Enjoy the random links that also have nothing to do with what we were talking about. The problem here is that instead of researching the data to come to a conclusion, you've come to a conclusion and are now trying to find the data... that matches your conclusion. It is known as confirmation bias, and while this may work wonders for religion, it's worthless to rationally minded people.

This thread is not about any conclusion from me. Its about a point of view in an article by a Mr Miller. Since I posted it here, I am helping out with your request,  to verify the data in that article via another source.  

[Tom62]

The wealth of the Catholic Church is enormous. I you look where that money came from and what the Church does with it, the Church should in fact stand in a corner and feel very ashamed of itself. Billions of dollars are pumped into that financial institution every year and it is extremely difficult to find out where all the money goes. Known is that only a few crumbs of it is spent on charity and that most of the money disappears in the pockets of the Church themselves.

Here in Germany alone, the catholic and protestant churches receive 14 billion Euro (19 billion dollar) per year from the government (thru church taxes, grants, etc.).  Interesting enough most schools, kindergartens, old folks homes, hospitals, etc.  that call themselves Catholic or Protestant receive only 6% of their finances from the church, the remaining money comes straight out of the taxpayer's pocket. So, where does all the money go? Well that has been made very difficult by the church themselves, because they keep shifting around funds from one place to another. In that respect they are just as evil as the Mafia or Enron. Clear is that it pays off to be a bishop or cardinal in a German Church. They are indeed very well paid (EUR 11,000 net per month), don't pay any taxes, have free lodging and many other privileges.

To me the Catholic Church is an immoral, corporate organization, who only want to take care of themselves and don't give a shit about others. Sure, there are people in that organization that are sociable, charitable and good people, but the Church itself as an institution is evil.

[philosoraptor]

One of the primary responsibilities of the us Government is to protect its Children. If there is any threat to its children, by the nature of a single organization, then this would be made evident and action taken.

With regards to possible inaccuracy of the stats provided by the Church, you can be sure, given the medias anti catholic agenda, it would make headlines like “Catholic bishops give fake statistics”
Given that there has been no such headlines, you can be sure of its accuracy.

It is not debateable that the catholic church is a force for good for the following reason.
Consider the population of Catholics in the world, That’s the group of people that profess to be catholic and who contribute to the upkeep of its many charitable works (as stipulated in those statistics).
Now ask each and every one of them, “Do you intend to be a force of good in the world?”
What percentage do you think will say yes? I put it to you that most people(independent of catholic or not) asked that question would say yes.
So then the catholic church is a tangible force of good in the world, as made evident by the many charitable institutes run by them and by the expressed intent of all its members.

If I believed in the soul, I'd say that a tiny part of mine died reading these statements, but you get the point.  I noticed you like links, so here's one for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacies

[hvargas]

Its nice to compare private vs. public, apart from the crimes committed by the private sectors. In this case the Catholics. A crime is a crime and no good deeds undo the crime. What I see is the unjust place on public schools children, which is just cause they are public they are somehow led away and have the highest drop-out rate. While the private have the highest grad-go-on-to-college-and-beyond. But, this is about a crime not about fairness.

[Whitney]

This thread is not about any conclusion from me. Its about a point of view in an article by a Mr Miller. Since I posted it here, I am helping out with your request, )

HAF is not link dumping site, if you post something that isn't news be prepared to defend it as your position or provide a counter to why you think the link content is incorrect.

In short, we have a put up or shutup policy.

[fdesilva]

..
Here in Germany alone, the catholic and protestant churches receive 14 billion Euro (19 billion dollar) per year from the government (thru church taxes, grants, etc.).  Interesting enough most schools, kindergartens, old folks homes, hospitals, etc.  that call themselves Catholic or Protestant receive only 6% of their finances from the church, the remaining money comes straight out of the taxpayer's pocket. .

All of that church tax is from the members of the Church. A person has the freedom to leave the church, in which case they do not pay it. The Government collects this tax, for a fee. So the tax is not government money, but the money of the commumity of believers in the church, which they give to the church freely.
As I said before on this thread, while it is more formalised in Germany, its no different to other countries where
If you go to a catholic service on a sunday, you would find that there is 2 collection. One collection is for the upkeep of the church (fancy cloths, food for cleargy,buidings etc) and the 2nd for the other charities. Now if the people giving this money don't have a problem with it why should any one else?"
Please read the following
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax

The church tax is only paid by members of the respective church. People who are not member of a church tax-collecting denomination do not have to pay it. Members of a religious community under public law may formally declare their wish to leave the community to state (not religious) authorities. With such a declaration, the obligation to pay church taxes ends. Some communities refuse to administer marriages and burials of (former) members who had declared to leave it.

[Davin]

[...]Some communities refuse to administer [...]burials of (former) members who had declared to leave it.

Now that is charity right there!

[fdesilva]

[...]Some communities refuse to administer [...]burials of (former) members who had declared to leave it.

Now that is charity right there!

Its talking of many different communities, that does not nessarally mean the "some community" is the catholic church. Further if the person can afford this expences but wants to get it free, giving such a person a free ride will not be charity. If on the other hand they cannot afford it, then charitable organizations will help out.

[elliebean]

The whole catholic charity issue =

http://mediationchannel.com/2009/11/16/fallacious-argument-of-the-month-in-pursuit-of-the-red-herring/

IOW, it doesn't matter in the least. It has no bearing whatsoever on the argument over the question posed by the author of the article quoted in th OP:

Why would newspapers carry on a vendetta on one of the most important institutions that we have today in the United States, namely the Catholic Church?

Acceptable answers:

They don't
It sells papers
Journalists hate catholicism
Misleading question; it isn't a vendetta, it's real news
All journalists are secretly in league with the devil
Because thousands of cases of sexual abuse of children by deranged monsters calling themselves spiritual leaders have been made public after decades (at least) of systematic coverups by catholic leadership going all the way to the pope

All of those answers require cited support by verifiable facts.

Everything else on the subject is just a smokescreen.