Help my friend out please!

[barbaricpink94]

So I made a survey monkey account, and I created the survey, so if you guys could fill it out here that would be great, if you already have, could you forward the link to others. Thanks! The link is http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/F659C33

[dogsmycopilot]

Hey guys,
 most people believe that a women in Islam is considered an object, and although this may not make much sense to some of you, a women covers her hair and body because she is considered precious, not an object that any man could look at or check out. I am sure that this idea may not click to some of you, but I would still hope you could respect my religion the same way I respect your belief.
Thanks

Do you really think that the act of approaching a full half of the human race as an "object" is something we should respect? I hope not. The idea not only cannot be respected it is loathsome. It should "click" with no one. And if it does you should be ashamed of yourself.

[G-Roll]

Hey guys,
 most people believe that a women in Islam is considered an object, and although this may not make much sense to some of you, a women covers her hair and body because she is considered precious, not an object that any man could look at or check out. I am sure that this idea may not click to some of you, but I would still hope you could respect my religion the same way I respect your belief.
Thanks

Do you really think that the act of approaching a full half of the human race as an "object" is something we should respect? I hope not. The idea not only cannot be respected it is loathsome. It should "click" with no one. And if it does you should be ashamed of yourself.

Lol oops?

anywho, i would say a woman covers her hair and body because she is controlled. she may be precious yes, but not precious enough….

Qur'an- 23:5 "Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave girls for these are lawful property to them)...

Qur'an- 2:282 "...and call in to witness two witnesses, men; or if the two be not men, then one man and two women, such witness as you approve of, that if one women errs the other will remind her."

Qur’an- 4:34 "Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All high, All great."

Yeah its precious. Grant it many muslims may treat women differently but this sounds more like control as opposed to preciousness….

[fortunastoryteller]

Hey, guys.  barbaricpink is just trying to get some honest opinions here, not to hear her religion bashed.  In order to really understand what it's like to be in her shoes, one really has to immerse oneself in the Islamic way.  I used to think that al'hijab was oppressive until I decided to try wearing one.  Covering one's hair and body might seem extreme to most people, but it all boils down to fashion.  Do I think that women should be FORCED to wear garments if they don't want to?  Of course not!  But barbaricpink and my other friends wear al'hijab because they WANT to.  

tl;dr, actually try to walk in her shoes a little before you start telling her she ought not dress the way she does or believes what she wants.

[pinkocommie]

Hey, guys.  barbaricpink is just trying to get some honest opinions here, not to hear her religion bashed.  In order to really understand what it's like to be in her shoes, one really has to immerse oneself in the Islamic way.  I used to think that al'hijab was oppressive until I decided to try wearing one.  Covering one's hair and body might seem extreme to most people, but it all boils down to fashion.  Do I think that women should be FORCED to wear garments if they don't want to?  Of course not!  But barbaricpink and my other friends wear al'hijab because they WANT to.  

tl;dr, actually try to walk in her shoes a little before you start telling her she ought not dress the way she does or believes what she wants.

First, to truly avoid confusion, your friend should speak for herself.  

Second, re-read the thread.  Until your friend chose to post and interject her opinions, every post was an honest response to her survey or a question about the survey.  Your friend started the conversation about her personal beliefs when she posted them.

I honestly don't believe you or your friend have any reason to be upset.  People will probably comment on the things you've said as well.  This is a forum, when you comment, people will likely respond to your comment - that's pretty much the sole purpose of a forum.

[Whitney]

Hey, guys.  barbaricpink is just trying to get some honest opinions here, not to hear her religion bashed.  In order to really understand what it's like to be in her shoes, one really has to immerse oneself in the Islamic way.  I used to think that al'hijab was oppressive until I decided to try wearing one.  Covering one's hair and body might seem extreme to most people, but it all boils down to fashion.  Do I think that women should be FORCED to wear garments if they don't want to?  Of course not!  But barbaricpink and my other friends wear al'hijab because they WANT to.  

tl;dr, actually try to walk in her shoes a little before you start telling her she ought not dress the way she does or believes what she wants.

^until just then no one knew your friend was a she; I think you are taking things a bit too personal.

With all due respect....this forum isn't set up for data collection but rather for debate/discussion.  If that is a problem for you or your friend then...well...don't post here at all.

As for Mulsim women covering themselves.  I have been friends with a muslim woman who came to the US as an exchange student and therefore was totally free from being socially pressured to cover herself; within a year she was no longer wearing even a head scarf.  She said she felt a bit naked at first but that it was very liberating to not have to cover up; I don't think she went back home.  

I also know women who do wear a head scarf even though they are in the US but they are also a part of the local Mulsim community and I don't know them well enough to ask why they wear the scarf and get anything more than the 'appropriate' answer.

[Dretlin]

I think the answer here really is - are you doing the survey or not.

If you want to debate Islamic attire, maybe we should create another thread. As this does not seem like the place for it.

fortunastoryteller - survey done. Hope it helps.

[dogsmycopilot]

Hey, guys.  barbaricpink is just trying to get some honest opinions here, not to hear her religion bashed.  In order to really understand what it's like to be in her shoes, one really has to immerse oneself in the Islamic way.  I used to think that al'hijab was oppressive until I decided to try wearing one.  Covering one's hair and body might seem extreme to most people, but it all boils down to fashion.  Do I think that women should be FORCED to wear garments if they don't want to?  Of course not!  But barbaricpink and my other friends wear al'hijab because they WANT to.  

tl;dr, actually try to walk in her shoes a little before you start telling her she ought not dress the way she does or believes what she wants.

I respectfully, yet completely disagree. You do not have to spend a day as a slave to know slavery is wrong. I think it needs to be said, too. I'm not arguing to be contrary, although I do that on occasion, I genuinely think this subjectivism is a big part of the problem today. We know this stuff is wrong, yet we hesitate to say so to be culturally sensitive. That's just cowardly and wrong (and spoiled western.) It is oppression, it is not fashion at all.   Rage Against the Veil!

[Ihateusernames]

Hey, guys.  barbaricpink is just trying to get some honest opinions here, not to hear her religion bashed.  In order to really understand what it's like to be in her shoes, one really has to immerse oneself in the Islamic way.  I used to think that al'hijab was oppressive until I decided to try wearing one.  Covering one's hair and body might seem extreme to most people, but it all boils down to fashion.  Do I think that women should be FORCED to wear garments if they don't want to?  Of course not!  But barbaricpink and my other friends wear al'hijab because they WANT to.  

tl;dr, actually try to walk in her shoes a little before you start telling her she ought not dress the way she does or believes what she wants.

I respectfully, yet completely disagree. You do not have to spend a day as a slave to know slavery is wrong. I think it needs to be said, too. I'm not arguing to be contrary, although I do that on occasion, I genuinely think this subjectivism is a big part of the problem today. We know this stuff is wrong, yet we hesitate to say so to be culturally sensitive. That's just cowardly and wrong (and spoiled western.) It is oppression, it is not fashion at all.   Rage Against the Veil!

Yeah, omfg seriously like for real.  But I think even you are stuck in the quagmire of subjectivism!  How dare western countries even have laws forcing people to not be nude!  Forcing people to wear ANY clothes is oppression!  Rage against all laws!!!

/end sarcasm

I'm not supporting "the Veil," I'm just popping in to comment on how inconsistent your stance is.  All laws are basically 'agreed' oppression, so why exactly do you draw the line on 'the Veil'?  Why not all laws regarding clothes?  If it is the oppression that bothers you, why is a 'big' oppression (veil) worse than a 'small' oppression (non-nude laws)?

-Ihateusernames

PS: granted, I suppose, if you are an anarchist, it makes sense....  but my guess is you aren't.

[SSY]

From a purely data driven perspective, that survey is very poorly designed, you will have a lot of trouble getting any respected peer reviewed journal to publish your research based on that survey. In general, long, descriptive and qualitative answers make for poor instruments when trying to gauge consensus of a view amongst a specific community, although multiple choice, or agree/disagree questions are certainly a blunter instrument in an individual sense, they are much more useful when trying to collate data for a subset of the population. In order to improve your survey I would suggest "
Research Methods and Statistics in Psychology" by Coolican, while only an A level standard (end of highschool) of maths is required to understand it, I feel you would get more if you at least had the beginning of an undergrad mathematical education. This is the standard textbook prescribed by my university's psychology department, and some of the more adventurous students come into our statistics courses to further their understanding. Once you have read the book, why not compose another survey?

/Contribution

[dogsmycopilot]

Yeah, omfg seriously like for real.

Ok, that tells me all I need to know.

PS: granted, I suppose, if you are an anarchist, it makes sense....  but my guess is you aren't.

Then your guess would be as wrong as that childish language used above. I am quite anti christ, thank you.

[SSY]

Anarchist not Antichrist

[Heretical Rants]

When clothes are optional people get used to occassional nudity.  It becomes a non-issue, and I don't think that there is anything immodest about that.

Is it really all that traumatising when your neighbor's kid runs streaking down the road?

[G-Roll]

Hey, guys.  barbaricpink is just trying to get some honest opinions here

she now has mine.

not to hear her religion bashed.

yawn....

Covering one's hair and body might seem extreme to most people, but it all boils down to fashion.  Do I think that women should be FORCED to wear garments if they don't want to?  Of course not!  But barbaricpink and my other friends wear al'hijab because they WANT to.

article written by Christina Hoff Sommers

The subjection of women in Muslim societies--especially in Arab nations and in Iran--is today very much in the public eye. Accounts of lashings, stonings, and honor killings are regularly in the news, and searing memoirs by Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Azar Nafisi have become major best-sellers.

from islam for today.

Strangely, when a Muslim woman's Islamic rights are violated, many organizations are eager to speak out and petition.  For example, when Merve Kavacki was denied her seat in the Turkish Parliament because of her headscarf (and later stripped of her citizenship), Muslim groups were quick to condemn the Turkish government, as they should have.  In many Western Muslim circles, Merve has been elevated to a symbol of the struggle muhajabat women face in secular societies.

Yet there is a resounding silence when the issue being raised is Female Genital Mutilation (FGM), honor killings, forced marriages, the unequal application of hadd punishments on women, or the denial of education to girls and women.  All of these wrongs are perpetrated on women in the name of Islam.  While it is true that many of these violations occur across cultural and religious boundaries, the only action often taken by conservative Muslims is a condemnation of the action because it is "cultural" and not Islamic.  Meanwhile, women continue to be murdered and little girls continue to be mutilated.

actually try to walk in her shoes a little before you start telling her she ought not dress the way she does or believes what she wants.

no one is saying what she should wear and what she should not wear. no one is saying what she should believe and what she shouldnt believe. my argument lies in the treatment of women in islamic societies. not all islamic societies and not by all muslims. but would you (either of you) argue that women have equal rights as men in islam and islamic societies?

think the answer here really is - are you doing the survey or not.

If you want to debate Islamic attire, maybe we should create another thread. As this does not seem like the place for it.

fortunastoryteller - survey done. Hope it helps.

actually this post is on topic. and has gone unanswered.... perhaps because all the poster wanted was to place a survey...