Theology

[Dagda]

or...you just got lucky.

It would be more interesting if I actually knew you and you were able to do things like that constantly to people with no other explanation than psychic.

I am rather interested in investigations into psi just now, and I have noticed that people make this fundamental misjudgement in concern to anything to do with psi: they assume that, unlike every other human ability, it functions at a constant super-human level without the need to practise or refine the technique. In reality studies into psi have shown that (if psi exists) psi can persistently make random events less random-for instance if the chance level is at 2o% the psi might help you score 30%. As psi is rarely refined it tends to remain weak, random and quite unspectacular in the field.

Obviously I would need far more information, but assuming idiotsavant is not lying or mistaken this might be a good case study for clairvoyance, but I think the Mrs. W could probably be explained as the placebo effect unless we can gather more information which points in a different direction. Post more tomorrow.

[notself]

Please support your comments by providing links to the studies you reference.

[idiotsavant]

Hmm... Psi.  As I said, there’s always another explanation.  At the risk of boring you, let me tell you another story.

Many years ago our immediate family was embroiled in a very difficult and private situation.  We were at a deadlock, and knew not what to do.  My wife, Imwis, bumped into Barb, one of our prophetic acquaintances.  Barb lives far from us, and all our communication with her is face to face.  Without prompting, Barb told Imwis the current situation and the subsequent outcome.  I was center stage in this thing, so rather than tell me this prediction, they gave me a sealed envelope of the transcript. I read the letter five minutes after the surprise resolution - Deja Vu.  The detailed accuracy was stunning...

Would you place this experience under the heading of “Possible PSI”?  And I wonder why you are willing to consider “Possible PSI (if it exists)”, yet reject the idea of “Possible Spiritual / Supernatural (if it exists)”.  Have any of us experienced all there is to experience in this universe?  And in this infinite universe, is there no room for a supernatural / spiritual being?  Why is my explanation so unpalatable?

Peace - I/s

[Whitney]

Hmm... Psi.  As I said, there’s always another explanation.  

Other explanations being possible does not take away your need to cite studies you mention.  Of course, this is only a need if you wish to discuss the topic seriously.

[Dagda]

Please support your comments by providing links to the studies you reference.

I know, I know. Since I began this thread I have been combing the web for the Ganzfeld Experimental study. A few years back I found a website which held within it hundreds of Ganzfeld experiments, but this has either been taken off-line, or has been swamped by Dan Brown related sites (the ‘Lost Symbol’ had a Noetic scientist in it). My search continues.

Would you place this experience under the heading of “Possible PSI”?  And I wonder why you are willing to consider “Possible PSI (if it exists)”, yet reject the idea of “Possible Spiritual / Supernatural (if it exists)”.  Have any of us experienced all there is to experience in this universe?  And in this infinite universe, is there no room for a supernatural / spiritual being?  Why is my explanation so unpalatable?

Peace - I/s

The supernatural is possible, but I brought up psi because there are scientific studies which support its existence whilst ‘spiritual beings’ have still to be investigated in any great depth. Stick to what you know, as they say.

[notself]

"Dagda"

Please support your comments by providing links to the studies you reference.

I know, I know. Since I began this thread I have been combing the web for the Ganzfeld Experimental study. A few years back I found a website which held within it hundreds of Ganzfeld experiments, but this has either been taken off-line, or has been swamped by Dan Brown related sites (the ‘Lost Symbol’ had a Noetic scientist in it). My search continues.

I found something on Ganzfeld experiments.  The experiment doesn't support psi or spiritualism.  The experiment indicates the reactions,  hallucinations, of the brain when sensory impression is reduced.  Here is the link.
http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/2008/11/g ... inati.html

I have no idea why you couldn't find this information.  I "ganzfeld experiment" and got 69,400 hits including this about the poor methodology of those experiments which supposedly resulted in proof of telepathy.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... xperiments

[idiotsavant]

Hmm... Psi.  As I said, there’s always another explanation.  

Other explanations being possible does not take away your need to cite studies you mention.  Of course, this is only a need if you wish to discuss the topic seriously.

I don't recall citing any studies...

All of these 'god' experiences are from the mind alone.

Why is my (spiritual being) explanation so unpalatable?

The supernatural is possible, but I brought up psi because there are scientific studies which support its existence whilst ‘spiritual beings’ have still to be investigated in any great depth. Stick to what you know, as they say.

I am sticking to what I know, as Whitney explains...

It would be more interesting if I actually knew you and you were able to do things like that constantly to people with no other explanation than psychic.

Experiential knowledge trumps hearsay

I've yet to isolate any knowledge I have that isn't related somehow to some experience.  For instance: I "know" that time is maleable. I "know" this because I have experiential knowledge of math.  I trust Albert when he tells me that the formula E=mc2 is simply a higher form of that math.  Others I trust verify this, so I know(?) / believe(?) that time is maleable, even though I've never manipulated time.

I think Daga meant to say "Stick with what you can prove".  I can't prove the things I've told you.  If you're interested, you could hunt down some prophetic Christians in your area and examine them.  But how would you measure such things?    

Peace I/s

[idiotsavant]

What?  No reply?  Dumbfounded are you?

[Whitney]

What?  No reply?  Dumbfounded are you?

Actually, I was just really busy doing more important things.

But, you did just win yourself a warning for being uncivil.

[Dagda]

What?  No reply?  Dumbfounded are you?

Work comes before an internet forum, you see.

[idiotsavant]

Sorry, poor choice of expression.  I've just begun to work on this train of thought, and was hoping for some input.

Peace I/s

[Ihateyoumike]

Sorry, poor choice of expression.  I've just begun to work on this train of thought, and was hoping for some input.

Peace I/s

I have a better idea. Tell us what our input is going to be using your special powers, and then when you're correct, we'll all believe in them!
Two birds... one stone.

[Tanker]

Sorry, poor choice of expression.  I've just begun to work on this train of thought, and was hoping for some input.

Peace I/s

I have a better idea. Tell us what our input is going to be using your special powers, and then when you're correct, we'll all believe in them!
Two birds... one stone.

Hint: my input shall have pirates in it...and lasers...and the proper question to get the answer 42.

[idiotsavant]

Love to, but my "special powers aren't at my disposal.

[Ihateyoumike]

Love to, but my "special powers aren't at my disposal.

Convenient?

[X] Rather
[ ] Not at all