Would we all be better off without religion?

[Adrian Simmons]

Yeah I get that but as they say, two wrongs don't make a right.

Oh if only life were that easy.  

 

I enjoy the company of my religious friends so much, that I still go to church. Yeah I know, go figure. My point being that there's always a positive way to deal with (and get along with) those who believe differently.

I've never been religious, but I hung out at a Unitarian church for a huge chunk of my childhood and those people gave me a really positive opinion of Christians at a young age.    It wasn't until I was older that I realized that the Christians I knew were one one kind of thousands of kinds of Christians and that some Christians felt they were justified in taking their beliefs and trying to make laws based on those beliefs to the exclusion of anyone else's beliefs under the guise of being god-endorsed-'right'.  That's when I went from an atheist who didn't think anything of being an atheist to a vocal and self defined atheist.  I don't care what anyone else wants to believe, but when it starts infringing on the lives of others, it's wrong.

Too true.

[G-Roll]

I guess it's because I'm a realist, I dunno really, I just don't buy the whole "God diddit" theory any more. It's hard to explain the transition, maybe it's just a change of mindset more than anything else. How did you become an atheist? Were you religious at any time?

i in no way mean to judge you, make you feel uncomfortable, or unwelcome. but you seem to quite staunchly defend christianity. i say christianity because you still attend church and seem quite happy to have your children in a catholic school. i personally have no issue or argument for any of that. it just struck me as odd that you would label yourself as an atheist, yet put down atheists while defending christians and there beliefs. i suppose the atheists you mention are individuals like anyone else, yet they were used to defend the "other side of the argument."
so you are not sure why you became an atheist? are you sure you want to be an atheist? not buying the god did its is a start if atheism is what you really want. again i dont judge you and i apologize if i have painted a completely wrong picture. but for a moment i suspected you as a christian pretending to be an atheist... whatever that would accomplish. i guess faith is hard for some to drop, and for others it seems to fall off all on its own.

i became an atheist long ago when i was a kid. no god has presented me with any kind of reason to believe in it/him/her. i have never felt, seen, tasted, or heard anything to make me think, yes there is a god. to claim god is present in something is as silly to me as to state there is an invisible banana inside us all that controls us. yes he flashes and dances as well.
my last bit of faith was that god was present, but he didnt give a shit about anyone or anything. he was emotionally dead. i never bought into the idea of satan, god seemed evil enough all on his own to me.
but, now... i confidently say its ALL nutty.

[Adrian Simmons]

I'm not defending christianity or any other religion. Why are you seeing this is a battle, with sides, and the need for defence? That's not the way I want to look at it, it's not a war. And can I say, I'm not putting down "atheists" for being atheists, since I am one, and that would of course be silly. I was just saying that sometimes some atheists can be uptight and turn everything into a big issue, even my atheist friends are (just about) able to admit it. But if I didn't believe that the majority of any kind of group wasn't resonable, I wouldn't bother coming here. My best friend is an atheist, and most of my more easygoing friends are christians, go figure.

It's not a matter of wanting or not wanting to be an atheist any more than it is for a gay person to want to or not want to be gay. It's just how it is. I can't put it into words that well, some people are better at that kind of thing than others. Yes I know it's odd for an atheist to like the company of christians and to want to be around them enough to go to church, but then again, it's odd, unfortunately, because of this "us and them" attitude that I personally prefer to stay away from, for people to want to come together. More atheists should go to churches, it's a good lesson in how to put things into perspective, how to see what really matters.

[G-Roll]

Why are you seeing this is a battle, with sides, and the need for defense?

because often it is.

That's not the way I want to look at it, it's not a war.

until christmas time? then the war starts?

And can I say, I'm not putting down "atheists" for being atheists, since I am one, and that would of course be silly. I was just saying that sometimes some atheists can be uptight and turn everything into a big issue, even my atheist friends are (just about) able to admit it. But if I didn't believe that the majority of any kind of group wasn't reasonable, I wouldn't bother coming here.

i in no way disagree with this

It's not a matter of wanting or not wanting to be an atheist any more than it is for a gay person to want to or not want to be gay.

i would say that is a good analogy

Yes I know it's odd for an atheist to like the company of christians and to want to be around them

nah

want to be around them enough to go to church

yeah thats odd.

people to want to come together

all people? because i know A LOT of people who are interested in nothing more than power. peace and brotherhood are after thoughts.

More atheists should go to churches, it's a good lesson in how to put things into perspective, how to see what really matters.

what is it that really matters that i can only understand in a church environment? why would i go to church to worship a deity that represents all that i think is a crappy idea?
i have no beef with moderate christians or laid back people of any belief. i dont go to parties or social events and "preach" my atheism. i dont hold others to what i would view as my "moral standards." i expect the same from others, no invisible man gives others the right to think of me as anything less than human. i dont wish to hear about how my soul needs to be saved or to quote one "friend of a friend" that its "to late for me the devil is all twisted up inside me. hell is the only thing in my future."
now i do make huge attempts to view people as individuals but i fail miserably at this when a large group of people rooted in the same belief system, spanning across every race, gender, creed, class, and background all are rooted in the same beliefs. organized religion is nothing more than hate in my eyes. i want nothing to do with it.

[Adrian Simmons]

Maybe you need to shift your focus. Churches aren't the only places where you can learn about what matters, but that doesn't mean that they aren't. And you don't have to worship, no one goes around checking. I actually enjoy all the happy clappy stuff, it's corny but it's a nice break from the routine of everyday life, and I like the artwork in churches. Idon't mind the preaching either because everyone is there out of their own free will, I just take what I like out of it and as for the rest I accept it for what it is. I don't know, I think it's really just a matter of how you want to look at it. By the way I'm not saying you should go to church, I'm just saying what I like about it, and that there's different ways to look at it. If I decided to see it like you do, and focus on what you focus on, I probably wouldn't bother going either.

[G-Roll]

Maybe you need to shift your focus. Churches aren't the only places where you can learn about what matters

what is it you are saying that matters?

And you don't have to worship, no one goes around checking.

from what ive experienced in churches worship isnt really on the agenda. its mostly snobbery and judging others, gossip, and the likes of that. perhaps we have just had different experiences with different people.

and I like the artwork in churches

ah something about church we both can apprechiate  

Idon't mind the preaching either because everyone is there out of their own free will, I just take what I like out of it and as for the rest I accept it for what it is. I don't know, I think it's really just a matter of how you want to look at it.

meh, i guess you have that ability if you dont belive in anything the preacher is saying.

By the way I'm not saying you should go to church, I'm just saying what I like about it, and that there's different ways to look at it.

i took your posts in no other way.

If I decided to see it like you do, and focus on what you focus on, I probably wouldn't bother going either.

again, we must have had completely different experiences.

[Adrian Simmons]

Lots of things matter. But in church obviously the focus is on being good and all that corny kind of stuff. The bells and whistles, the crosses, Adam & Eve, I don't let it bother me because it's not a problem, I let it wash over me. I have to say, you've probably been to some strange churches because where I go and where I've been there's no snobbery or gossip as far as I can tell, well no more than anywhere else, anyway. It's a gethering of people so you're bound to get all sorts. It's not a problem if you don't make it one, and it's not hard to do.

[G-Roll]

It's a gethering of people so you're bound to get all sorts.

100% true. perhaps "birds of a feather flock together."

[elliebean]

Maybe it would help this discussion if we were to clarify what we each mean by "Christians". I think a lot of this "us vs. them", taking sides kind of stuff is directly attributable to some of the fundy types out there. And yes, I even know some of them who are pretty laid back about it, believe it or not. Consider that almost all of my extended family, parents, and siblings fall into that category.

But I won't go to any of their church services for roughly the same reasons I don't attend Klan meetings.

I suspect we're all in more agreement than disagreement here.