happy that i'm holy. i once was lost but now am found.

[LoneMateria]

HJ I'd actually like to have a conversation with you as would other members of HAF.  However you are making it difficult.  I know you want to raise your posts quickly but posting one line responses 3 times in a row is annoying at best.  I don't typically help people out who I don't think are interested in holding rational discussions or contributing to the forum, but for sanity's sake let me let you in on a Happy Atheist secret.  When you are on the reply screen you can scroll down the previous posts and hit the quote button and you can quote multiple people on the same post.  At least that way no one has to read 20 posts to get five sentences worth of responses from you.  Though we don't grade you on your posts grammar, punctuation and sentence structure are appreciated by members here.  It doesn't have to be perfect (no ones is) but an attempt is appreciated.

Now I am curious about your condition.  What type/denomination of theism do you follow?  Are you refusing medical procedures based on religious beliefs?  Your posts seem to indicate that you think magic man made everything and does everything.  Does that mean he is giving you heart attacks and cancer too?  Man he must really love you...

Now back to the beginning where you said you lost yourself and your god found you.  Shouldn't you say you found your god?  After all he doesn't seem to have your best interests in mind when it comes to your current health status.  To me that sounds like being an 8 year old lost in the woods and running into the local pedophile it doesn't seem like your situation has improved.  Perhaps you should say that you stumbled around until the ice cream man found you and offered to let you ride in the back of his truck.  I don't see any reason why you should be bragging about that.  If your magic man did everything he has caused undue suffering on you in recent times, you can't have the good without the bad.

[holy joey]

... I'm no dentist, but reading this is like watching someone pull teeth.

that's due to a drill without anesthesia.

[holy joey]

When you are on the reply screen you can scroll down the previous posts and hit the quote button and you can quote multiple people on the same post.

thanks.  i was actually looking for that option, but i had only looked on the main thread page and not the reply page.

Now I am curious about your condition.  What type/denomination of theism do you follow?

i was ex-communicated from the protestant church.

Are you refusing medical procedures based on religious beliefs?

no, i just don't want to be tortured by my doctors like my mother was before she died.

Your posts seem to indicate that you think magic man made everything and does everything.  Does that mean he is giving you heart attacks and cancer too?  Man he must really love you...

not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Now back to the beginning where you said you lost yourself and your god found you.  Shouldn't you say you found your god?

i wasn't looking.

After all he doesn't seem to have your best interests in mind when it comes to your current health status.  To me that sounds like being an 8 year old lost in the woods and running into the local pedophile it doesn't seem like your situation has improved.  Perhaps you should say that you stumbled around until the ice cream man found you and offered to let you ride in the back of his truck.  I don't see any reason why you should be bragging about that.  If your magic man did everything he has caused undue suffering on you in recent times, you can't have the good without the bad.

i've not blamed God for anything here.  you may be projecting.

[notself]

Holy Joe,
What kind of cancer do you have and what is its staging?

I my DX is IDC, Stage2, Grade2, 2.4 cm, 0/8 Nodes, ER+ PR+ Her-2 Borderline, Rad 33, declined chemo.

[LoneMateria]

When you are on the reply screen you can scroll down the previous posts and hit the quote button and you can quote multiple people on the same post.

thanks.  i was actually looking for that option, but i had only looked on the main thread page and not the reply page.

No problem.  New members tend to have a learning curve when it comes to the quote feature.  (I was no different)

Your posts seem to indicate that you think magic man made everything and does everything.  Does that mean he is giving you heart attacks and cancer too?  Man he must really love you...

not sure how you came to that conclusion.

I'm not sure which of the above sentences you are confused about so I don't know which to respond to.  Which of the above sentences are you not sure how I came to my conclusion?  I'd be happy to explain how I came to my conclusion.

Now back to the beginning where you said you lost yourself and your god found you.  Shouldn't you say you found your god?

i wasn't looking.

Do you have to be looking to find something?

After all he doesn't seem to have your best interests in mind when it comes to your current health status.  To me that sounds like being an 8 year old lost in the woods and running into the local pedophile it doesn't seem like your situation has improved.  Perhaps you should say that you stumbled around until the ice cream man found you and offered to let you ride in the back of his truck.  I don't see any reason why you should be bragging about that.  If your magic man did everything he has caused undue suffering on you in recent times, you can't have the good without the bad.

i've not blamed God for anything here.  you may be projecting.

Thats the problem.  You aren't blaming your god here for the terrible things that have happened but you credit him with the good things that happened.  If your god was the creator of everything and constantly interferes with things to help you then when something terrible has happened and your god hasn't helped you it is because he doesn't want to, he did this to you, he is enjoying watching this happen to you, he doesn't care about you, or he isn't real.  

Also I can't project onto something that isn't real.  Sorry, not me projecting.  I'm following your logic to it's conclusion which you seem to be ignoring.  However your statement leads me to believe you are projecting feelings onto what i'm saying.  Please understand that I do not believe your god exists, I cannot have any feeling toward a god just like I cannot have any feelings toward Santa Clause.  I can't be angry at Santa, or happy at Santa, or any other feeling at Santa because he isn't real.  Same with any god.

[i_am_i]

no, it's all true.  you may live in a sheltered world.  but you don't need to believe me if you don't wish.  you came asking the questions.

Why would you think that I live in sheltered world, Joey?

[holy joey]

Which of the above sentences are you not sure how I came to my conclusion?  I'd be happy to explain how I came to my conclusion.

your reference about a magic man giving me cancer.  not sure how you came up with that.

Do you have to be looking to find something?

no.

You aren't blaming your god here for the terrible things that have happened but you credit him with the good things that happened.  If your god was the creator of everything and constantly interferes with things to help you then when something terrible has happened and your god hasn't helped you it is because he doesn't want to, he did this to you, he is enjoying watching this happen to you, he doesn't care about you, or he isn't real.

you seem to have developed a very elaborate god concept.

Please understand that I do not believe your god exists, I cannot have any feeling toward a god just like I cannot have any feelings toward Santa Clause.

your god concept has a very elaborate personality.  it runs virtually parallel to anthropomorphism.

I can't be angry at Santa, or happy at Santa, or any other feeling at Santa because he isn't real.  Same with any god.

seems like a strawman argument.

[holy joey]

Holy Joe,
What kind of cancer do you have and what is its staging?

I my DX is IDC, Stage2, Grade2, 2.4 cm, 0/8 Nodes, ER+ PR+ Her-2 Borderline, Rad 33, declined chemo.

a half-dozen modern-western doctors are basing their information on statistical probablility in the absence of signed liability waivers, suggesting an 80% mortality risk this year.  the eastern doctor suggests that it may or may not be at a pre-detection stage of advancement.  the cancer philosophies are very much different.

Why would you think that I live in sheltered world, Joey?

because you interpret my answers to your specific questions as impossible, to the degree that you resorted to allegation.

[LoneMateria]

your reference about a magic man giving me cancer.  not sure how you came up with that.

In the previous comments you made both in this thread and in your introduction you made many comments such as, god is your doctor and he answers your prayers anytime anywhere.  I'm guessing the latest tests confirm that you still have the cancer and the heart problems.  In which case only a few hypotheses can be true for you.  I'm almost 100% positive you've prayed for your god to cure you of this cancer.  Yet you still have it.  So either 1: god is ignoring you, 2: someone you know is praying for you to have cancer in which case your god answered their prayers and not yours, 3: there is no god.  If you think god is all powerful and is able to take away your cancer, he must be able to give you cancer as well.  Since you are willing to accept that magic can fix you and science (medicine) can't then why aren't you open to the idea that magic gave you the cancer too?  Which is easy to answer, you are like most theists and credit your magic man for all the good that happens in your life and credit something else when bad stuff happens.  

If your god is all powerful and watching you and knows/actively participates in your life (answering prayers and such will qualify him for this) then he gave you the cancer as well... why else would you still have it... he must want you to have cancer and die from it.  Or the better answer is that there is no god doing this, shit happens, and doctors can fix these problems at a certain success rate.  In which case you are wasting time and energy praying when you need to get yourself under the knife.

Do you have to be looking to find something?

no.

Then why couldn't you find your god instead of it finding you?

You aren't blaming your god here for the terrible things that have happened but you credit him with the good things that happened.  If your god was the creator of everything and constantly interferes with things to help you then when something terrible has happened and your god hasn't helped you it is because he doesn't want to, he did this to you, he is enjoying watching this happen to you, he doesn't care about you, or he isn't real.

you seem to have developed a very elaborate god concept.

Not really.  Most Christians believe that their god is all powerful, all knowing, cares for you, and interferes in your life constantly.  If he interferes in your life constantly then when you find your car keys and credit your god he gets points, and when he gives you hereditary heart defects it's his fault also.  You can't say he is responsible for everything but he isn't to be blamed for the bad stuff too.

Please understand that I do not believe your god exists, I cannot have any feeling toward a god just like I cannot have any feelings toward Santa Clause.

your god concept has a very elaborate personality.  it runs virtually parallel to anthropomorphism.

When you get angry at the tooth fairy let me know.  Until then you are projecting the emotions you have onto what I am saying.

I can't be angry at Santa, or happy at Santa, or any other feeling at Santa because he isn't real.  Same with any god.

seems like a strawman argument.

How am I misrepresenting the situation exactly?  How is this a straw man?   Again when the actual tooth fairy makes you angry let me know.

And one last note i'm off to bed.  I'll respond to whatever you say in the morning.  If you are still going to claim i'm projecting then please prove it and quit asserting it.  All you have done here is assert garbage and when I explain why it doesn't work you start to turn to more assertions and an ad hominem.  If you assert it please back it up otherwise don't assert it.

[Ellainix]

Do you honestly think HoJo is here for anything more than trying to make him/herself feel better about his/her own beliefs?

you just need something to be deep inside, but don't know it.

Yeah, and we also need to teach our children to fear hell, keep women under men, beat up some homos, spread more gospel than legs, etc..

No thanks.

[holy joey]

In the previous comments you made both in this thread and in your introduction you made many comments such as, god is your doctor and he answers your prayers anytime anywhere.

actually, you've pulled both comments from another thread.  you should probably address them there.

I'm guessing the latest tests confirm that you still have the cancer and the heart problems.

your guess is incorrect.

In which case only a few hypotheses can be true for you.

your case does not exist.

I'm almost 100% positive you've prayed for your god to cure you of this cancer.

almost 100% is not 100%.  i'll accept whatever comes.

Yet you still have it.  So either 1: god is ignoring you, 2: someone you know is praying for you to have cancer in which case your god answered their prayers and not yours, 3: there is no god.

you're projecting strawman arguments.

If you think god is all powerful and is able to take away your cancer, he must be able to give you cancer as well.

i never mentioned anything to the contrary.

Since you are willing to accept that magic can fix you and science (medicine) can't then why aren't you open to the idea that magic gave you the cancer too?

i never suggested that magic can fix me.  rather, i suggested that medicine may not be able to, by the doctors' own admission.

Which is easy to answer, you are like most theists and credit your magic man for all the good that happens in your life and credit something else when bad stuff happens.

incorrect.  you're projecting a strawman argument.  you're simply likening me to others you've met.  i've admininstered no such credits.

If your god is all powerful and watching you and knows/actively participates in your life (answering prayers and such will qualify him for this) then he gave you the cancer as well... why else would you still have it...

you're projecting postulation.

he must want you to have cancer and die from it.

now you're getting just plain spooky.

Or the better answer is that there is no god doing this, shit happens, and doctors can fix these problems at a certain success rate.

human mortality brings illness.  illness is commonly part of the dying process.

In which case you are wasting time and energy praying when you need to get yourself under the knife.

that's not your choice.  it's illegal for doctors to treat me.

Then why couldn't you find your god instead of it finding you?

the capacity doesn't exist within the context of mortal pseudo-consciousness.  the agnostics can explain this to you.

You aren't blaming your god here for the terrible things that have happened but you credit him with the good things that happened.

incorrect.  quote me directly where i've done this.

Most Christians believe that their god is all powerful, all knowing, cares for you, and interferes in your life constantly.

how did you come to mix christianity with our discussion?  i've never mentioned christ.  not all theists are christian.

If he interferes in your life constantly then when you find your car keys and credit your god he gets points, and when he gives you hereditary heart defects it's his fault also.  You can't say he is responsible for everything but he isn't to be blamed for the bad stuff too.

so what has your assertion got to do with me?

When you get angry at the tooth fairy let me know.

you seem a bit angry at the god concept that you've constructed and falsely claim that i believe in.

Until then you are projecting the emotions you have onto what I am saying.

then why this impassioned plea to me?  are you trying to convince me of something?

How am I misrepresenting the situation exactly?  How is this a straw man?

i reference this above.

Again when the actual tooth fairy makes you angry let me know.

when the actual tooth fairy gets me angry, i'll write long posts against it in just the same way that you've written long posts against the imagined god concept which you've constructed in this thread.

If you are still going to claim i'm projecting then please prove it and quit asserting it.

again, see above.

All you have done here is assert garbage

you're getting emotional.  i can tell by the colorful language.

and when I explain why it doesn't work you start to turn to more assertions and an ad hominem.

what you interpret as ad hominem may be just you taking things personally.  this is likely why you're getting emotional with me by calling my assertions garbage.  very colorful language.

If you assert it please back it up otherwise don't assert it.

again, see above.

[holy joey]

Yeah, and we also need to teach our children to fear hell, keep women under men, beat up some homos, spread more gospel than legs, etc..

whatever works for you.

[karadan]

But before you became ill you were, as you say, lost. What was that like, being lost? Can you describe it?

i was a pre-teen.  my father was a kidnapper, so i didnt know what to do.  but then a pastor guided me.

Erm.. Who did your father kidnap? Did he let it known or did you find out in some unfortunate way like in The Road To Perdition where the kid looks through a crack in some wood to see his dad shoot someone in the head?
That's got to be a disturbing upbringing, if true.

[holy joey]

Erm.. Who did your father kidnap?

a 10 year old boy was kidnapped, drugged, sodomized and filmed by my father's husband at my father's house.

Did he let it known or did you find out in some unfortunate way like in The Road To Perdition where the kid looks through a crack in some wood to see his dad shoot someone in the head?

i found out months afterwards when my father's husband went to jail.

That's got to be a disturbing upbringing, if true.

when his husband went to jail, he then desired me, but i don't believe in that.

[pinkocommie]

Erm.. Who did your father kidnap?

a 10 year old boy was kidnapped, drugged, sodomized and filmed by my father's husband at my father's house.

Did he let it known or did you find out in some unfortunate way like in The Road To Perdition where the kid looks through a crack in some wood to see his dad shoot someone in the head?

i found out months afterwards when my father's husband went to jail.

That's got to be a disturbing upbringing, if true.

when his husband went to jail, he then desired me, but i don't believe in that.

OF COURSE your dad was a gay pedophile.