Re: the holy Quran and the creation of universe

[some light plz]

To Whitney

the holy Quran written by Arabic language and the message of Allah by the Arabic language  , and we are reading an effort of a good people such as you who try to translate  this message to you by your language .. therefore we named these books " translation of the holy Quran ' .
there is very clear difference  between the Arabic and the English language .the Arabic language is  stronger and more beautiful than the English language .

((190. Verily in that is a Sign: but most of them do not believe. 191. And verily thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful. 192. Verily this is a Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds: 193. With it came down the spirit of Faith and Truth- 194. To thy heart and mind, that thou mayest admonish. 195. In the perspicuous Arabic tongue)) Surah 26

Dear Whitney :
just to inform you maybe my next words  are against the rules of AHF , .. and you have the right to delete them if you consider it  preaching .

A lot of people promoters of this saying (( the Quran has been authorship by  Mohammad  )) But the Quranic verses answered them very clearly with this bright truth ( This book is impossible to be author by prophet Mohamed ))

1-    sometimes inspiration of Allah came to admonish Prophet Mohammad : (([1] (The Prophet) frowned and turned away, [2] Because there came to him the blind man (interrupting). [3] But what could tell thee but that perchance he might grow (in spiritual understanding)? )) Surah 80

2-    sometimes inspiration of Allah Contrary to conduct of the Prophet Mohammad: (([67] It is not fitting for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: and Allah is Exalted in might, Wise. [68] Had it not been for a previous ordainment from Allah, a severe penalty would have reached you for the (ransom) that ye took. )) Surah 8

3-    sometimes the inspiration of Allah came as a command : ((O Apostle! proclaim the (Message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His Mission. And Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). For Allah guideth not those who reject Faith. )) Surah 67 …
 
4-    this verse is more dangers : ((Behold! thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah )) Surah 37

5-    or he was able to  say that I am the one who achieved all victories : ((Assuredly Allah did help you in many battle-fields and on the day of Hunain: behold! your great numbers elated you, but they availed you naught: the land, for all that it is wide, did constrain you, and ye turned back in retreat. )) Surah 9 :25 and also in this verse  : ((It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things). )) Surah  8 : 17

6-  if it is not inspiration  he should hide this verse : ((Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the Messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration: I am but a Warner open and clear." )) Surah

7-      and this verse should be hidden ((Say: "It is not in my power to cause you harm, or to bring you to right conduct." ))Surah 72

8-  and this verse is impossible to be from prophet Mohammad : ((But it has already been revealed to thee, - as it was to those before thee - "If thou wert to join (gods with Allah), truly fruitless will be thy work (in life), and thou wilt surely be in the ranks of those who lose (all spiritual good)." )) .

9-    the verse explains itself ((And thus have We, by Our command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and what was Faith: but We have made the (Qur-an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will; and verily thou dost guide (men) to the Straight Way; ))

10 - The Holy Koran does not speaks about the human Mohammad who lives as other humans and Faced in his life  shocks and sadness, for examples :his wife and his uncle died in the same year and you will never find a word in Quran mentioned them , also when his Childs three sons died the Quran never mentioned them . this  book does not speaks about his happiness times or his sadness times . it is a book about almighty  Allah .

these were some examples.

furthermore : it is impossible for prophet Mohammad who was unlettered person lived in desert environment .. his early life was in Grazing sheep .. lived among  a people  does not know prophets in them , to speak about the modern sciences  before 1400 . and more than that he speaks about  beginning and the end of universe and the modern science proves that he was right in each word .

thanks

[Whitney]

Arabic language is  stronger and more beautiful than the English language .

People who speak English have no problem conveying their intentions when writing.  There is no reason why whatever is said in the Quran can't be translated coherently into English.

It also doesn't change the fact that the verse I pointed out in my previous post has absolutely nothing to do with the other verses you were using to claim the Koran demonstrated knowledge about the universe that was ahead of its time.

[Mark L Holland]

To  Renegnicat

  Damn that was a good post.   :bananacolor:

[some light plz]

Some light plz, I would like to point out something and ask a question:

First, I believe you are a good person. You probably do not endorse the killing of women or children. I don't think you would endorse fanatical conquest of america killing all infidels. My question, then, is that if some other verse were put in place of the ones you have pointed out, if the koran had been written differently, would that in any way change your views towards murder or genocide, of torture or stealing? Would trampling on the dignity of a baby have any different meaning in your view?

I do not think that you would suddenly commit all sorts of atrocities towards fathers, children, and orphans, or rape the poor and drink vodka every day, even if the koran had been written completely differently. If this is true, then I would like to ask you to consider other cultures and beliefs as simply alternative korans, ones that don't have the truth behind them, for that alone belongs to the koran, but alternative korans. Like you, these people reading their alternative korans and with their different beliefs, they also do not condone evil. They do not rape or kill or steal normally. In fact, if terrorists do not follow the will of allah because of their hate, then perhaps people who maybe do not read the koran but lead lives of love and fellowship also follow the will of allah, who is present in everything.

I respect your beliefs, founded by Allah, and I do not claim at all in any way that they are definitively false. I don't want you to convert to atheism, I don't want you to become christian. I feel that it is enough that we are all Allah's children, and I only ask that you not burden yourself with trying to justify islam in the face of all threats. So long as you live as one with Allah, you will most likely be happy and in paradise, and is that not a small price to pay for reprieve from defending your faith?

Inshallah, my friend,

the treasure of  USA  was the perfect image which is the land of freedom and human rights . but through the past 30 years the government of the USA Destroyed  this image ,more than that  this image is only a fake image .

Yes , yes , yes .

The USA government knew the importance of this image and its value , so it spent   much money on propaganda and fake media to improve its image . but what happened is the opposite of that , day after day the ugly face for this country , sorry your government appears and expose more and more .

even if USA has a full authority on world media and using it in sinking the world by [ movies , programs , ..... ] and as long as I mentioned movies  then surely Hollywood will be available through the American soldiers who are going to save the world and our mother America from communism of Russia , fascism of Italy   , or Nazism of  Germany , and our moment the terrorism of Islam . or their myths heroes [ superman , hellboy , Rambo,……… ] . truly the American people in need for these movies so they do not feel the frustration about what happening in the real world against their ugly  government .

I am sure that most of the American people are infected by the flood of material desires and pleasures : [ women , sex , wine , drugs , stars , music and songs ,parties , dance , joy  â€¦â€¦â€¦ ] and truly they do not know what is happening in the world .

After 9/11 : the USA media asked a silly question to let  their people live in darkness  : why they hate us ?

This question was false and faked , but the answer was more unsavory and futile and racial , the answer was : they hate us because we are democrat  and wonderful and rich !!!

The Americans forgot : more than 50 years  supported and helped the Jews against the Palestine by money and weapons , also the objections by [ VITO ] on many decisions against Israel .

The Americans forgot : that they are the cause of many wars in the world and many troubles in many countries .

The Americans forgot : that they came to our lands with their technology, Navy forces to kill us for Oil of Iraq or for strategic place as Afghanistan by depending on a false claim : [ war against terrorism ] or [ who is not with us , then he is against us ] .

Truly : I do not blame the American people , but I blame  your government's tyranny . because: for each victim in 9/11 the revenge was 1000 victims Muslims . 1 American = 1000 Muslims .

But did your government achieve its targets and destroy  terrorism ?

No . USA is capitalist country , which means your humanity level depend on your wallet . and USA losses in its war in Iraq and Afghanistan [ billions of dollars , soldiers , prestige , confederates ,  â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦ ] and the Americans people and the world are paying the bills of these mirage wars .

I would like to continue . but I know I will face a big wave of anger from many people here .

Sorry :we do not blame the peaceful people  but we blame your government .
----------------------------------------------
But did you look at Islam through the lens  of your brain , or the lens of your Media  ?
Do you accept that Muslims judge on your nation  according to  government acts  ?

My friend :
Islam comes from the word Salam which means peace . if the admin allows me to write about  the Islamic Law with non Muslims . you will be amaze in what you will read .
But a verse will lights for you the way :
((O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware. )) Surah 49:13
Allah said : that ye may know one another ,  not kill each other .

So if 10 thousands Muslims were mistaken and acted wrong . pelase do not judge on 1.2 billion Muslims who want to live in peace like you but your government do not want this peace for them .

The disturbances and wars in :
1-   Sudan .
2-   Yemen .
3-   Pakistan .
4-   Iraq .
5-   Lebanon .
6-   Somali.
7-   Afghanistan 0
8-   South of Saudi Arabia .
9-   Iran .
10-   Palestine .
11-    Chechnya .
12-    Indonesia .
By secularism governments. they destroyed the communism in Russia and the only enemy remained is Islam . not the terrorism as they claim.   but they can not :
((Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light however much the disbelievers are averse. )) Surah 61 :8

3 months were enough to solve the world economic problem , but 70 years were not enough to solve the Palestinian problem . those on thrones are laughing on us .
You are reading the news , and Muslims its events .
Thanks …. My regard .

[Mark L Holland]

To some light pls

  You are right, and please accept my apologies for what we have done.
 

[Ihateusernames]

Arabic language is stronger and more beautiful than the English language .

People who speak English have no problem conveying their intentions when writing.  There is no reason why whatever is said in the Quran can't be translated coherently into English.

It also doesn't change the fact that the verse I pointed out in my previous post has absolutely nothing to do with the other verses you were using to claim the Koran demonstrated knowledge about the universe that was ahead of its time.

There are perfectly good reasons that the Quran can't be translated coherently into English namely all the grammatical mistakes that are in... oh wait... I shouldn't be saying this... I'll "disappear" like all the experts who were willing to admit this over the years.  The Quran *is* absolutely perfect in every way...even grammar... I mean... it was Mohamed's only miracle to prove his prophet status after all...

I must admit the amazing devotion that is given to the book though is quite amazing... I mean, changing an entire language's grammatical and syntactical rules based on the grammatical errors of the compiler! Wowsers!

-Ihateusernames

[G-Roll]

The disturbances and wars in :
1- Sudan .
2- Yemen .
3- Pakistan .
4- Iraq .
5- Lebanon .
6- Somali.
7- Afghanistan 0
8- South of Saudi Arabia .
9- Iran .
10- Palestine .
11- Chechnya .
12- Indonesia .

im not saying i trust our government or that our capitalism is helpful to the rest of the world. nor am i saying that we actually have any businesses in some of those areas of the world....
but i dont care what countries you put on that list, i would much rather travel out millions of miles and fight in one of those countries than fight their troops here in the US. maybe that makes me a bad person... but im cool with that. i dont want to be the home team. im sure the countries listed above dont want us killing their people and breaking their shit either, but we got the bigger stick and swing it harder. and i have no doubt if we where the weaker country and any of those countries listed could just show up and take what they wanted to... would they not? if they had the power would the tables not be turned?

Mark L Holland

To some light pls

You are right, and please accept my apologies for what we have done.

i do respect that you would apologize because our government has done some f*cked up stuff, but i just hope you dont enjoy reaping the benefits of everyday american life. if you live some alternative lifestyle i will retract this statement, but it erks me to hear americans complain about how evil we are then go and take FULL advantage of the boon those evil deeds bring to our country. again im not saying we do right by world peace... but name a government who does. name a perfect county... no one wants peace except peaceful civilians (how many of those do you truly know? By truly I mean willing to give up their current lifestyle, beliefs, and prejudices for peace).  Everyone wants something from someone else and if need be they will kill for it. whether it be oil, territory, religion, or they just plain dont like them.

bah this post is turning into a rant...

all humans are equally disgusting… it doesn’t matter where you live.

[some light plz]

Hello G-roll
The holy Quran mentioned the names of the gods during prophet Noah peace be upon him
((And they have said: Forsake not your gods. Forsake not Wadd, nor Suwa', nor Yaghuth and Ya'uq and Nasr. )) Surah 71 :23

Also the holy Quran mentioned a unique false  god , hidden god
((Hast thou seen him who maketh his desire his god ; and Allah sendeth him astray purposely, and sealeth up his hearing and his heart, and setteth on his sight a covering? Then who will lead him after Allah (hath condemned him)? Will ye not then heed?)) Surah 45 : 23

many false gods . does not mean we reject and deny the real god . but prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him will show you the path , with his highest logic against those people who follow false gods :
1-A conversation with people who worshipped stars [ sun and moon ] :

75. So also did We show Abraham the power and the laws of the heavens and the earth, that he might (with understanding) have certitude.
76. When the night covered him over, He saw a star: He said: "This is my Lord." But when it set, He said: "I love not those that set."
77. When he saw the moon rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord." But when the moon set, He said: "unless my Lord guide me, I shall surely be among those who go astray."
78. When he saw the sun rising in splendour, he said: "This is my Lord; this is the greatest (of all)." But when the sun set, he said: "O my people! I am indeed free from your (guilt) of giving partners to Allah.
79. "For me, I have set my face, firmly and truly, towards Him Who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to Allah."
80. His people disputed with him. He said: "(Come) ye to dispute with me, about Allah, when He (Himself) hath guided me? I fear not (the beings) ye associate with Allah. Unless my Lord willeth, (nothing can happen). My Lord comprehendeth in His knowledge all things. Will ye not (yourselves) be admonished?
81. "How should I fear (the beings) ye associate with Allah, when ye fear not to give partners to Allah without any warrant having been given to you? Which of (us) two parties hath more right to security? (tell me) if ye know.
82. "It is those who believe and confuse not their beliefs with wrong - that are (truly) in security, for they are on (right) guidance."
83. That was the reasoning about Us, which We gave to Abraham (to use) against his people: We raise whom We will, degree after degree: for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge.

2-A conversation with people who worshipped idols :
51. We bestowed aforetime on Abraham his rectitude of conduct, and well were We acquainted with him.
52. Behold! he said to his father and his people, "What are these images, to which ye are (so assiduously) devoted?"
53. They said, "We found our fathers worshipping them."
54. He said, "Indeed ye have been in manifest error - ye and your fathers."
55. They said, "Have you brought us the Truth, or are you one of those who jest?"
56. He said, "Nay, your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, He Who created them (from nothing): and I am a witness to this (Truth).
57. "And by Allah, I have a plan for your idols - after ye go away and turn your backs"..
58. So he broke them to pieces, (all) but the biggest of them, that they might turn (and address themselves) to it.
59. They said, "Who has done this to our gods? He must indeed be some man of impiety!"
60. They said, "We heard a youth talk of them: He is called Abraham."
61. They said, "Then bring him before the eyes of the people, that they may bear witness."
62. They said, "Art thou the one that did this with our gods, O Abraham?"
63. He said: "Nay, this was done by - this is their biggest one! ask them, if they can speak intelligently!"
64. So they turned to themselves and said, "Surely ye are the ones in the wrong!"
65. Then were they confounded with shame: (they said), "Thou knowest full well that these (idols) do not speak!"
66. (Abraham) said, "Do ye then worship, besides Allah, things that can neither be of any good to you nor do you harm?
67. "Fie upon you, and upon the things that ye worship besides Allah. Have ye no sense?"..

3-   A conversation with a king  who thinks he is a god :((258. Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust. )) Surah 2

Dear G-roll
All the false gods will fail in front of your great mind and the only  god who will remain is the real God , but you need a guide

I will continue with prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him .
Thanks , my regard

[Mark L Holland]

To G-roll

  And many of those things that we have gained by our actions are the death and destructions of the wars that have sprung up from those actions.  We felt safe behind our ocean walls.  Believing that we could not be attacked and we acted with the pride that false belief caused.  The United States is on it’s way to becoming a second world nation, it is bankrupting itself to sustain the image that we are the great caretakers of righteousness in the world.

  Those who refuse to learn history are destined to repeat history.  Ignoring our mistakes and refusing to acknowledge those mistakes only means that those same mistakes will occur again and again.  The United States is quickly going the way of the Roman impire who reached the peak of their power and authority and collapsed because of their ego’s and belief that they were the greatest nation on earth and that nothing could change that.

  The only difference between us and the Romans is that they went out with a wimper, whereas with our nuclear and advance technologies we can go out with one hell of a big bang.  And based upon the history of our governments actions, it seems likely that we will take the world with us before allowing ourselves to become second rate.
 :bananacolor:

[G-Roll]

Those who refuse to learn history are destined to repeat history. Ignoring our mistakes and refusing to acknowledge those mistakes only means that those same mistakes will occur again and again. The United States is quickly going the way of the Roman impire who reached the peak of their power and authority and collapsed because of their ego’s and belief that they were the greatest nation on earth and that nothing could change that.

i often find myself saying that.

i know most of what you typed is true/right. i just hope we can take our country back from whatever super power stole it or bought it out from under us when we werent looking. i could just be crazy but maybe i just somehow became wiser in my age instead of just older, but the US today is not the country i remember growing up in.

Lol, i still mean my comment about the stick and swinging it.

[McQ]

Those who refuse to learn history are destined to repeat history. Ignoring our mistakes and refusing to acknowledge those mistakes only means that those same mistakes will occur again and again. The United States is quickly going the way of the Roman impire who reached the peak of their power and authority and collapsed because of their ego’s and belief that they were the greatest nation on earth and that nothing could change that.

i often find myself saying that.

i know most of what you typed is true/right. i just hope we can take our country back from whatever super power stole it or bought it out from under us when we werent looking. i could just be crazy but maybe i just somehow became wiser in my age instead of just older, but the US today is not the country i remember growing up in.

Lol, i still mean my comment about the stick and swinging it.

Good points, guys. We've been giving this country away for a long time, and patting ourselves on our collective backs while doing it. Definitely akin to the adage about Nero, a fiddle, and a big, big fire.

[Mark L Holland]

To McQ and G-Roll

  While the selling out of the country was done behind the backs of the citizens, it was not done accidentally or blindly.   I still do not know what Clinton got in selling out our rocket and missile technology to China, I personally cannot see any benefit that we got out of the deal.  But what I would like to know is what kind of back room deals were made by Bush the Father to buy off China and Russia to get his war, and what kind of back room deals Bush the Son made to get his war in Iraq.

  It is no accident that Chinese dry wall that turns into mold within months of instillation or Chinese steel that collapses under it’s own weight went through the US customs without any verification whatsoever or Chinese drugs that kill people or dog food that kills pets.  This is happening because giving the Chinese a free ride into our economy by supplying inferior or dangerous products at reduced prices under cutting American manufacturers was their payoff for not vetoing the war.

  While Russia’s pay off was our updating and advancing their the early warning system and dropping restrictions against them bringing in advanced technologies.  Which actually I do not mind, people would be scared silly to know just how many times we came close to having nuclear wars either through stupidity or accidentally so I have no problems with upgrading Russian early warning technologies.  But it was still a pay off.
 

[some light plz]

25. And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind )) Surah 57

http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/70mi ... f_iron.php

who did tell prophet Mohammad about Iron ?

[Recusant]

25. And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind )) Surah 57

http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/70mi ... f_iron.php

who did tell prophet Mohammad about Iron ?

I notice that you didn't bother to take note of or reply in any way to my previous response to your original post, so I expect to receive the same silence again.  You really should work on your technique.  Have you ever heard the phrase, "qui tacet consentit" (silence implies consent)?  I'm not saying that you agree with my answer, but by not replying, you make it seem like maybe you don't have any reasonable (or even unreasonable) way to respond.  Onward...

You may not be aware of the fact that a good percentage of the Earth is iron.  Most of it is under our feet, not "sent down."  There was no "down" for iron to be sent to until the planet was formed, and as I said, a certain percentage of the material that accumulated to form the planet was iron.  So that iron, in reality, was never "sent down."  The fact that this iron originated inside stars which lived and died before this solar system even came into existence is not even hinted at in the line from your holy book which you quote.  Once the Earth formed, the only iron which has come from the sky has been in the form of meteorites, which were in fact a source of relatively easily accessible iron during the the Iron Age.  But no deity needed to tell your prophet about that.  People knew about meteoric iron for thousands of years before he was born.  Pull the other one.

[G-Roll]

Once the Earth formed, the only iron which has come from the sky has been in the form of meteorites, which were in fact a source of relatively easily accessible iron during the the Iron Age. But no deity needed to tell your prophet about that. People knew about meteoric iron for thousands of years before he was born. Pull the other one.

It truly is a lost cause.....  I suppose this is what you get when one mistakes ancient mysticism for a science text book.