The "Jesus" Symposium

[Reginus]

And yeah his name was Reginus. I wish he hadn't left.

Yeah, I kinda wonder if that Reginus guy is ever gonna come back...

Edit: By the way John, welcome to the forum  

[LoneMateria]

And yeah his name was Reginus. I wish he hadn't left.

Yeah, I kinda wonder if that Reginus guy is ever gonna come back...

Edit: By the way John, welcome to the forum  lol j/k.  Missed arguing with you Reginus how've you been?

[Reginus]

Wow you are back ... speak of the devil lol, good. I kind of rotate between hobbies for some reason, so I've been taking a break from religious debate and I've been doin Starcraft, EVE online, game maker, reading, etc.

Just stopped by a few days ago for no reason in particular.

Anyway, I suppose I won't derail the thread any further. Good to see ya though.

[LoneMateria]

I think John_Silver is MIA.  If he is then it's too bad because I was looking forward to this conversation.

[John_Silver]

I think John_Silver is MIA.  If he is then it's too bad because I was looking forward to this conversation.

Was MIA but have since been extracted safely. I do love Blackhawk helicopter rides, thanks for sending those.

Actually I have been in the studio laying down vocal tracks as well as finishing up some side design work so I can pay my guide in Israel.
I promise I'll be back shortly. By the way...the article I started is live on the website http://www.30shekels.com. Thanks for your patience, man. I feel like a jerk.

Back soon!

John

[LoneMateria]

I think John_Silver is MIA.  If he is then it's too bad because I was looking forward to this conversation.

Was MIA but have since been extracted safely. I do love Blackhawk helicopter rides, thanks for sending those.

Actually I have been in the studio laying down vocal tracks as well as finishing up some side design work so I can pay my guide in Israel.
I promise I'll be back shortly. By the way...the article I started is live on the website http://www.30shekels.com. Thanks for your patience, man. I feel like a jerk.

Back soon!

John

^_^ no worries, we got you out before having to send in the marines.  

You aren't a jerk I was just wondering what happened.  We all know real life takes priority over online life.  I was just afraid I scared you away.  

Vocal tracks?  Do you do music production work?  (If you've told us this before then I apologize, often times i'm painstakingly oblivious)  If so what genre?

[AlP]

Vocal tracks?  Do you do music production work?  (If you've told us this before then I apologize, often times i'm painstakingly oblivious)  If so what genre?

John is a talented musician. Go to the site in his sig and check it out!

[LoneMateria]

His song of the month is very nice.  ^_^ Yeah I think John has mentioned before that he does music production work.

[John_Silver]

I am replying to the second part for the sake of time. I canceled band practice today to reply to some of these (well, truthfully, I don't feel like practice today anyway). I'm sorry for not properly assigning quotes so I'll just post what you (LoneMateria) said in blue.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~Okay now onto the 2nd post

John_Silver wrote:Behold the new face of the organized, mega-church. I could tell you stories for days but it wouldn't be ethical for me to throw that kind of information into the “wolves' den” now would it?  

Sure it would. We already hate mega churches and assholes like Rick Warren ( who just recently got several million dollars from his congregation to make up for his bad business decisions which landed him nearly $1M in debt). What's a little more kindling on the fire?

There is much more, unfortunately. I will talk with you about those sometime.

But, yes, drive-by posting should be a crime.


I have a book you might like called "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman. It talks about the accuracy of the Bible as well as the various mistakes, mistranslations, and flat out forgeries in it. But it also talks about "heretics" like Marcion and how they changed the bible and the in-fighting amongst Christians in the first few centuries. He talks a lot about Paul's letters and how one of Paul's disciples wrote in Paul's name after his death as well as the mystery authors we know nothing about. Judging by what you said in this paragraph I think you'd like it, regardless if you agree with it's conclusion or not.

I just picked up that book. It was on my list along with a couple of others written from the same mindset. The “who wrote the Scriptures?” skirmish is about as winnable, in my mind, as the “where did we come from?” war. I suppose when I wake up in Heaven I will know the answers to both. And if, what you say is true about my God, I shall not wake up at all. Either way, it won't concern me for the utter awe of standing in God's Presence, or for the fact that, once my bones have decayed, I simply won't exist anymore.
I will get to the first part of your posts this weekend. God willing.

[John_Silver]

Vocal tracks?  Do you do music production work?  (If you've told us this before then I apologize, often times i'm painstakingly oblivious)  If so what genre?

Unfortunately, production is a necessary evil. I hate it. But in order to get there, production is part of it and I'm not doling out a few grand for someone else to do what I can do in my own studio. Plus, I am a control freak in only two aspects of my life...my music and my design work. I let most people walk all over me in all the other aspects.

John

[John_Silver]

Why does he need this?  Why is he so insecure that he requires this?  And why must it be of free will?  Wouldn't it just be easier for God to make a Mrs. God who lives him like two partners do?  I don't see the logic in this i'm sorry.

This is the one I want to spend the most time on. I have really been unpacking this one over the last two years in my mind. So I'm placing a book mark here. Thanks for that question.

John

[Reginus]

Wheres mah part 2?  

Jk

[LoneMateria]

Jesus didn't hate gentiles. Where ever did you hear that? Jesus' lineage includes a gentile great, great, great, grandmother (in Rahab). Ruth (also in His lineage) was a Moabit(ess). The Samaritan women Jesus talked to very gently and lovingly was a Gentile woman. As for God, when the Israelites came up out of Egypt, they traveled with the Gerim (sojourners) who were of the nations (gentile) and they were given full status of the Jews and could partake in all the Feasts. Again you are afflicted (I don't mean that derogatorily, man) by the same scales that most Christians have come under. Hebrew culture, the fact that Y'shua was a Rabbi and the traditions of that day play heavily into answers to these questions.

Matthew 10:5 Jesus tells his disciples not to preach to the gentiles which Paul ultimately ignores.  I think Matthew 15:24 mentions it also when Jesus said he only came for the lost sheep of Israel (Jews) then another mention in John 4:22 (salvation is for the Jews).  

You are asking a host of questions here, my man. The depths of which I simply cannot bring to this forum with the amount of time I have today. A good deal of this has to do with not only a lack of understanding of Hebrew on the part of those who try to explain these things (McDowell, Comfort, Strobel and other apologists) but on the blatant disregard for Jewish culture in the first century.
But you are asking powerful questions. Ones, in fact, that made me choose the path of my Faith that I am trudging even now. And it is not that same path I once walked. I do believe, however, that it leads to the same place.

The questions are along the same line.  Just one leads to another.  Take your time when you answer, lets not let haste side track our discussion.

Well, unfortunately, many of them want desperately to believe that what they have been taught is true without putting any of it to a test of reason. I've spent my life trying to rationalize my faith. I often I come up empty-handed. But not always. It's hard to explain here. There are places where faith doesn't make sense. Sometimes I live in those places...and I live well.

You just described why its bitter sweet to be an atheist.  If we are right no one will realize it.  You are the electrical impulses within your brain, once clinically dead for a few minutes you won't exist anymore.  After that point the only thing that will be alive in you is the bacteria that makes up a good portion of our body.

I don't disagree with you here. 10% tithe is misunderstood in most evangelical churches today. It's unfortunate.

What do you mean?

You can't forgive someone who doesn't think he's done anything wrong. Or, worse yet, one who refuses that forgiveness once he does come to know he has done wrong.

Not to sound cheeky but what planet do you live on?  Whats to stop ME from forgiving you for hitting my car though you wrongly think its my fault and won't accept it's yours?  And if you answer nothing (which you should) then whats stopping God from doing the same?  It's not like he can't take a hammer to the world right?

Sin is depicted as a disease that infects. And without a “cure”, for lack of a better word, the disease is fatal. Sin isn't something God introduced into the word it is what we Lucifer introduced by choosing it (or by refusing to accept that God's Love was enough for him) and we perpetuated.
Sin is not, in my mind, a “something”. It is a lack of something. The Great Minus. The Black Hole. When we sin, rather than choosing to live in Love, we choose, not hate...but “not-love”. The “not-love” is sin. Hate is a result of choosing “not-love”. I'm sorry for my rudimentary word studies here but I can't explain it any other way.

So how did you come to this conclusion on Sin?  Why can't God fix it on his own?  Why is a blood sacrifice in front of desert people in Pakistan the "only way" to cure this?

I don't mean to ask a lot of tough questions here, one thought leads to another.  Anyway if you believe sin is passed down through the generations (through adam and eve) then how do we chose sin?  If we are born with it what choice is in it?  Sin is an immoral system devised by bronze age barbarians who knew nothing of the world.  If you died and had debt would your children inherit that debt?  No, why? Because it's immoral.  Each person is responsible for their own actions.  If it's immoral for us to use then why would it be moral for God to use?  The thing is without sin the Churches lose congregation so how do you keep sin?  By advocating a totalitarian system where one can be tried and convicted of thought crimes.  Then you have people like Ray Comfort and Pat Robertson who say you are a dirty, murderous, thief at the age of 5 for stealing candy and hating the school yard bully.

Sorry didn't mean to rant like that.

The Creation story in B'ereshit (Genesis), according to my belief, is allegory. And an amazingly powerful one. The more you drill down, the more is opened up to you. The story of Jesus is in there! Clear as a bell once you start digging.

I wish I had more time! Three weeks until this trip and I still have countless things to do.
I will get to the first part of your posts this weekend. God willing.

I'll disagree with you on Genesis, but I will leave it be for now ^_^

Prep for your trip.  I hear Israel is an interesting experience.  Just don't start acting weird or the local police will detain you.  Apparently they have had an overabundance of people claiming to be the messiah and the devil etc. etc..  I don't think you will have a problem (i'm assuming you don't act weird) but they look out for certain behavior and arrest people who they suspect might do something like that.  STAY FUCKING SAFE!!!!

[LoneMateria]

Why does he need this?  Why is he so insecure that he requires this?  And why must it be of free will?  Wouldn't it just be easier for God to make a Mrs. God who lives him like two partners do?  I don't see the logic in this i'm sorry.

This is the one I want to spend the most time on. I have really been unpacking this one over the last two years in my mind. So I'm placing a book mark here. Thanks for that question.

John

Bookmarked ... you are all set to go (this may merit a new thread when and if you get time to talk about it before your trip... if not then after ^_^)